tax credit fraud - in such a mess.

terrified01

Just wanted to say thanks to you all, you have been very, very supportive which I was not expecting. I know how much benefit fraud is generally detested and was concerned my story would appear as though I was trying to excuse what I had done. This is not the case, I was just trying to explain my situation as well as possible.

Anyway, I'll keep you all updated, sent everything back to compliance last week and since it was basically a full confession I would not expect it to be too long for them to make some sort of contact with me - shouldn't have thought there would be that much work for them to do on my case now.

Fingers crossed they are as undestanding as you guys and let me rectify my mistake - many of you are right in saying that I am torturing myself, which I am, so even if I avoid prosecution I dont want anyone to think I have got away with this because the personal torment will stay with me for a long long time.

To anyone in a similar position to me who is knowingly receiving more tax credits than they are entitled to, I would strongly advise getting in touch with TCO to put things right because they will catch up with you in the end and I would not want anyone to have to go through what I am going through right now, it's just not worth it.

Thanks again xx

karen_newcastle

compoff wrote: »

HMRC are reluctant to go down the criminal route, with respects to tax credits, due to the bad press it already gets. They treat tax credit fraud a lot different than they would for VAT fraud etc. The DWP is responsible for the other benefits and as such work things differently. As I said earlier they will not just take this overpayment off your current payments, you will have to pay back direct.

I can assure you - HMRC do regularly prosecute for Tax Credit fraud the negative press is NEVER an issue. However it is normally for larger amounts than this case.

terrified01

karen_newcastle wrote: »

I can assure you - HMRC do regularly prosecute for Tax Credit fraud the negative press is NEVER an issue. However it is normally for larger amounts than this case.

My understanding is (from the leaflet I received from HMRC) that they use the civil route unless they are left with no other alternative to use the criminal route and the seriousness of the offence warrants a criminal investigation. It seems they prosecute only around 100 people a year for tax credit fraud and that includes organsised crime, stolen identities etc so I dont think that prosecution can really be considered a regular thing? Tax fraud is seemingly much different and is where HMRC do most of their prosecutions.

My concern is that I will be one of those very small few who are prosecuted. I have already agreed to pay back the money, admitted I was wrong and am now suffering depression. I cant sleep, cant eat and cant face going out.

This probably all sounds over the top to you all but that is how I am. It has totally shaken me up to realise what I have actually done, when I was receiving the money I just blocked it out of my mind because of the desperate situation I was in.

What annoys me is some people get caught and are not even bothered about what hey have done and get away with it without having even a sleepless night. I have fully confessed at the earliest stages of enquiry so other that HMRC wanting to prosecute me to gain a prison sentenc over me, making me unemployable etc etc I cannot see what their gain would be?

I am not trying to justify what I have done, I do not think I should be exempt from prosecution,but it just appears some people are hell bent on making sure people suffer. I appreciate I have done a terrible thing and made the biggest mistake of my life but I dont think my 2 kids should suffer because of it and that is the only thing HMRC would have left to achieve from prosecution.

karen_newcastle

Sorry but I don't have much sympathy for you. You seem an intelligent lady and seem to understand all the implications about fraud and how it can affect your family. I think you would still be claiming something you aren't entitled to now if you hadn't been caught. I can appreciate it's stressful for you and you are suffering. But this has been caused by you....not HMRC.

I do hope it's sorted and they let you agree manageable repayment terms and that you can put this whole sorry mess behind you.

There are many worse cases than yours - organised crime and people who steal identites of dead children who would be adults now to create whole familes who dont exist and claim hundreds and thousands of pounds each year. These are the cases that HMRC spend a lot of public money investigating and prosecuting so your situation is probably way down the list.

terrified01

Karen-Newcaste- I was not aiming my post directly at you nor do I excpect your symathy or anyone elses - which I have said from the start. I posted on here for opinions and advice,whether positive or negative and thank you for contributing to my thread.

I have never once tried to blame anyone else or HMRC for how I feel, or the mess I have caused myself to be in, nobody made me do it and that I 100% accept.

I know I could argue this until I am blue in the face, and totally understand why you think the way you do about benefit fraud, but it is like every crime - all are wrong, some more than others and some have mitigating circumstances. None are excusable but surely some deserve just a small amount of human compassion?

I dont want you to think I am having a go, I expecetd responses like this and you are fully entitled to post what you feel, but I just wanted to make it clear that I blame nobody but myself and do not expect sympathy.

SuziQ

What annoys me is some people get caught and are not even bothered about what hey have done and get away with it without having even a sleepless night. I have fully confessed at the earliest stages of enquiry so other that HMRC wanting to prosecute me to gain a prison sentenc over me, making me unemployable etc etc I cannot see what their gain would be?

I am not trying to justify what I have done, I do not think I should be exempt from prosecution,but it just appears some people are hell bent on making sure people suffer. I appreciate I have done a terrible thing and made the biggest mistake of my life but I dont think my 2 kids should suffer because of it and that is the only thing HMRC would have left to achieve from prosecution.

Actually you know-it is YOU making yourself suffer as your concience has gone into overdrive,which isn't anyone else's fault. I appreciate it's the 'not knowing' that is so awful-I would be absolutely the same,frantic until I knew my 'fate'.
As a Christian I would say it's a lot healthier for someone to be like you-worried and anxous,than to be nonchalant about it. Why does it bother you,that others have done the same thing and are not suffering as they have no concience? You should be concetrating on YOU and being a good role model to your children/children you teach and forget anyone else-we cannot be anyone else's concience and it is not down to any of us to judge someone else.
I am sure you will hear quickly and it won't be as bad as you fear. After all,there has to be an incentive to encourage any future accused people to co-operate!

terrified01

suziQ I can completely understand what you are saying, I should be concentrating on myself. I am basically on the defensive due to fear of the unknown but what I was basically trying to say was I would hope that they would take my case with slightly more lenience than that of a person who is simply not phased or bothered by what they have done and who are not cooperating.

It is very hard to express how I feel through this method and hope I am not comong accross as blaming anyone else or trying to justify that what I have done is ok because others have done it.

blueopal5577

You dont come across as blaming anyone else but yourself.

Youre human. Its easy for people to jump on the benefit fraud wagon, but how many people cheat on their husbands? do work cash in hand without declaring it as extra income every april? There are a thousand mistakes we can make, and your post is just 1 of them.

God if I people knew the mistakes I've made.

Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone. I'm not religious but its something to live by.

Youve got the courage to admit yours. You screwed up, you didnt kill anyone. Yes, they COULD prosecute you. Likely that they wont. You've admitted your error, you just need to work on sorting it out. My advice is I know you feel like you're in the gutter at the moment. But, the reality is you will move on from this situation. Do NOT promise to pay back at a rate that you cannot maintain because it'll just cause more problems.

I havent re-read your post since i first saw it 2 days ago. Just scanned through a couple of replies, so apologise if this is repetitive.

- Contact Citizens Advice Bureau. They wont judge you and they WILL help you.

-I suggest with them, you fill out an income and expenditure form, with them. I'm sure the tax credits people will ask for a similar document but its amazing, when u have a CAB one, they tend not to be questioned / lost etc. Also the CAB ones are registered with a number for reference.

- Work out what you can afford to pay, and the CAB will ALWAYS support you on this. Depending on how the tax credits people go, if you break repayment plans its worse than paying less and sticking to it.

I'm only giving you this advice because I've often agreed to repay at a higher rate because ive felt guilty for debt incurred (my 'home' is the bankruptcy board!! NOT something for u but i know about these things) and i appreciate so much that I'm not hung drawn and quatered and paraded through town with "SHAME!" on my hed, that its like "pay back £500 a day? YES! SORTED! THANK YOU!"


If you havent done so already, contact CAB.

If you're really too terrified to do this, contact National Debt Line. They are equally good and will have dealt with similar problems. The benefit of getting aquainted with CAB is they can support u in negotiating repayments, and any other legal blurb they may put on you.

I hope I dont get any negativity for this. I'm not defending benefit fraud, but humans make errors, and you are punishing yourself for this more than anyone else could. Its easy to bury your head in the sand when you're scared and overwhelmed. If you'd done it to go to the carribean it'd be a different story.

Keep us updated. If you need to chat PM me as as I say, this isnt my 'home' and I often dont come on for weeks at a time

xxx



I have an anxiety disorder and one of the things that I find useful is to rationalise what the worst case scenario is. The very WORST case scenario is they decide to prosecute. Whats the LIKELIHOOD of this happening? Very slim. 100 per year? You reckon the court wants to deal with you over a gang stealing IDs?

I know you wont believe this. So rationalise, court is a terrifying prospect if you havent gone through the ups and downs on the road to bankruptcy like myself. When you go to court, its actually 'beneficial'. (The CAB told me this, less did I believe them!) The court is truly unable to make you pay back at a rate that you cannot afford, I promise you. What happens is, you make a payment agreement. Thats where we get all the stories from "Builder claimed £100,000 in incapacity benefit, ordered to pay back £1000".

You are not going to jail. You are not going to be arrested. Why would they bother? Theyve got a full frank confession! You'd make a terrible criminal lol My bankruptcy isnt about the same situation but I want you to understand, whilst you're in this bubble of $%!! Here on the outside, I can see you'll come through this. Keep focusing on the fact that by XYZs birthday this will all be over. All they care about is getting their money back, they cannot make u pay at a rate you cannot afford that would cause undue hardship.

It really will be ok xxx

blueopal5577

Just read through the previous replies.

Isn't there a message from MSE Martin lurking around, that discussions on the policy / law / principles regarding benefits, bankruptcy and so on are for the Discussions Forum.

The individual boards and especially specific threads are for support without judgement. I understand people's views but we must be away that while this individual may not be, in future it may be someone with a bottle of pills in one hand, and a hope at their finger tips as they type. I know no one means any harm but the old adage if u cant say anything nice...

Debt / worry is specific to the individual, whilst one person may be ok with x amount of debt, the worry and stress to another can be a thousand times worse.

I know i sound preachy. The social worker in me. Just know ive been suicidal through debt stress and yet others have 10 x the amount and are fine with it!

Would hate a message to a board saying "i need help" resulting in someones idea that there's no hope being confirmed

karen_newcastle

terrified01 wrote: »

I do not think I should be exempt from prosecution,but it just appears some people are hell bent on making sure people suffer. I appreciate I have done a terrible thing and made the biggest mistake of my life but I dont think my 2 kids should suffer because of it and that is the only thing HMRC would have left to achieve from prosecution.

This was the comment I was relating to about you blaming others for the situation you are in. It's not HMRC who are hell bent on making you suffer they are just trying to make sure tax payers money goes to those who qualify for it.

Like I said I do honestly hope it's sorted out quickly for you and your familys sake so you can start to relax.