Help for returning resident

healy

krisskross wrote: »

This looks like about £2 a week so just £100 a year. Surely this isn't enough to claim a full State pension? I was daft enough to pay the married women's stamp and this was a lot more than £2 a week , in fact I was paying about £40 a week. Didn't entitle me to diddly squat.

If someone paid the full class 2 NI contributions for a year that would give them a qualifying year for the State Retirement Pension so if they did this for the required number of years it would give them a full pension.

beanjay1

Lets try and get a few things straight. When I left the UK more than 45 years ago to work overseas I received a letter from the then DHSS telling me that if I continued to pay full NI contributions I would be eligible for all of the benefits that this would entitle me to if I lived in the UK. The full contribution that I paid was decided by them (whatever designation they gave it) and adjusted over the years.

How then can it be that “There is not now and has never been a connection between paying NI and entitlement to NHS treatment.” Perhaps I misunderstood Mr Beven when he introduced the NHS in 1948. I could have sworn that he said it would be funded out of these contributions. I had a NHS card that showed that I was entitled to this benefit as a contributor not as a UK resident.

In 2007 I got a letter in response to a question that I put to the DoH on this very matter and it was they who told me that the changes to the regulations that affected me had been carried out in 1989. They even sent me a copy of the regulations.

These changes did not affect my state pension, which I still receive. TPS has always known that I lived abroad and there has never been a problem. If I did not pay my contributions, as some here are alleging, how is it I get the full State Pension?

To get State Benefits totalling £10,000 a year is not difficult. Housing Benefit is fixed locally at £4,732 a year. Council Tax Benefit varies but is around £1,200. On top of that there are the things that are difficult to price accurately but free medical treatment and medicines in the UK probably cost me around £1,000 a year overseas and would cost much more here. I get a bus pass which always saves me £17 a week, that’s another £800 plus, so these things soon add up.

Everybody here seems to think that I came to the UK for the state benefits and nothing could be further from the truth. I cannot understand the mentality of people who are content to live on the taxpayer rather than live somewhere where they can live well on their income, however meagre. I certainly do not “live a comfortable life” here and I paid more than “a few bob” for what I do get. The point is I could live a much more comfortable life elsewhere without any handouts from the taxpayer.

Had the government told me in 1989 that my National Insurance no longer covered my healthcare, I could have obtained private health insurance. Nobody wants to sell you that kind of insurance when you are 70!

We are talking about qualifying as a UK resident and I can confirm again that I had to undergo an interrogation at my home before I could be given residents status. My passport was examined in depth and I was asked about where I had lived previously and for how long at each address. I produced copies of receipts that I had given for the sale of my personal effects etc etc. To prove that I had qualified as a UK resident I was given Pension Credits, which are not available to non resident Citizens.

Keep the knives coming, I can fend them off!

mealone

beanjay1 wrote: »

OK. Twelve months has passed and we are settled in the UK now but I would like to clarify some points from previous posts.

I had no wish to return to the UK but was forced to do so by ridiculous government regulations. I lived and worked overseas all of my working life and because the UK government said I would always be eligible for full benefits if I continued to pay my NI contributions, I paid them for 50 years.

However, in 1989 the government decided to change the law so what I did not know was that NI contributions did not count as from that time and I had no longer had any health insurance even though I had paid for it in full.

A couple of years ago I started to develop cataracts that got rather bad. The NHS said that I would have to pay £2,500 per eye or return and live in England. As I did not have the £5,000 cash plus travel expenses available I had no alternative but to return.

Now to the stupid part:

Since returning to the UK with my partner I draw more than £10,000 a year in benefits to which I am legally entitled even though my partner has No Recourse to Public Funds.

Had the NHS allowed me to have the treatment that I had already paid for in NI contributions, without returning to live in the UK, they would have saved the British taxpayer £5,000 this year and more than £10,000 in every subsequent year.

When I asked the local MP for his comments on this he told me that there are many similar instances because, when formulating their regulations, no government department ever liases with any other department to see how their regulation changes affect them. In this case the NHS never considered the effect on the DWP of the changes they were making.

Since this saga began I have found out what I should have done and that is exactly what every other retired British person living overseas does. They simply remain registered with a local GP and give a relatives address in the UK as their own. That way no questions are ever asked when medical treatment is required. These retired people are not ripping anyone off, they have already paid their NI contributions up to their retirement date.

Hope this clarifies a few things.

beanjay

Ok so you dont want to be here and its all the governments fault because you paid the minimum stamp and even though your wife was welcomed here as your spouse and is working since she has NRPF you are now claiming benefits but you hate it here and if you had know when you were 50 in 1989 you would have paid for private insurance?

healy

beanjay1 wrote: »

Lets try and get a few things straight. When I left the UK more than 45 years ago to work overseas I received a letter from the then DHSS telling me that if I continued to pay full NI contributions I would be eligible for all of the benefits that this would entitle me to if I lived in the UK. The full contribution that I paid was decided by them (whatever designation they gave it) and adjusted over the years.

How then can it be that “There is not now and has never been a connection between paying NI and entitlement to NHS treatment.” Perhaps I misunderstood Mr Beven when he introduced the NHS in 1948. I could have sworn that he said it would be funded out of these contributions. I had a NHS card that showed that I was entitled to this benefit as a contributor not as a UK resident.

In 2007 I got a letter in response to a question that I put to the DoH on this very matter and it was they who told me that the changes to the regulations that affected me had been carried out in 1989. They even sent me a copy of the regulations.

These changes did not affect my state pension, which I still receive. TPS has always known that I lived abroad and there has never been a problem. If I did not pay my contributions, as some here are alleging, how is it I get the full State Pension?

To get State Benefits totalling £10,000 a year is not difficult. Housing Benefit is fixed locally at £4,732 a year. Council Tax Benefit varies but is around £1,200. On top of that there are the things that are difficult to price accurately but free medical treatment and medicines in the UK probably cost me around £1,000 a year overseas and would cost much more here. I get a bus pass which always saves me £17 a week, that’s another £800 plus, so these things soon add up.

Everybody here seems to think that I came to the UK for the state benefits and nothing could be further from the truth. I cannot understand the mentality of people who are content to live on the taxpayer rather than live somewhere where they can live well on their income, however meagre. I certainly do not “live a comfortable life” here and I paid more than “a few bob” for what I do get. The point is I could live a much more comfortable life elsewhere without any handouts from the taxpayer.

Had the government told me in 1989 that my National Insurance no longer covered my healthcare, I could have obtained private health insurance. Nobody wants to sell you that kind of insurance when you are 70!

We are talking about qualifying as a UK resident and I can confirm again that I had to undergo an interrogation at my home before I could be given residents status. My passport was examined in depth and I was asked about where I had lived previously and for how long at each address. I produced copies of receipts that I had given for the sale of my personal effects etc etc. To prove that I had qualified as a UK resident I was given Pension Credits, which are not available to non resident Citizens.

Keep the knives coming, I can fend them off!

A very good post, thank you for explaining the situation.

There are some very judgemental people on this forum and I really do not know how they can come up with some of the stuff they do when they do not know half the facts.

I would say ignore them but it is probably best that you explain things as you have because then they look like fools.

seven-day-weekend

beanjay1 wrote: »

If you live outside the UK there are restrictions placed on you. Some retired people that I met overseas had no idea about this and others just got around the problem like I said earlier.

If you go to Europe you are allowed to remain there for six months in any one year before losing your status as a UK resident. Outside Europe it is three months.

The reason that I cannot now go back overseas is that I had to re-qualify as a British resident. This was a lengthy and costly process, as I had to prove that I had disposed of all my assets overseas. It also involves interrogation by a government official who comes to your home to look for signs that you have returned for good, i.e. long term commitments etc.

I do not want to live here on handouts which keep me on the breadline. I would rather live somewhere I can live well on my pension without needing charity. All of the benefits that I get now are means tested . I can absolutely guarantee that I am legally entitled to them, I made sure of that.

When I worked overseas the government advised me to continue paying my NI contributions in order to qualify for my benefits. In 1989 they changed the law without telling me. They just kept taking my contributions although they knew that I could not fully benefit from them. I have always tried to play by the rules but when the rules are changed without your knowledge it gets a bit difficult. I can fully understand why some pensioners get around the system.

My partner came to the UK with me and from the day she arrived she was entitled to free treatment on the NHS because she had a Visa stamped in her passport. I was not entitled to any treatment because I had a British Passport and was a British citizen who had been away too long. I was the one who paid the NI contributions for 50 years, not my partner, although she is now employed full time and paying like everyone else.

Seven-day-weekend is obviously one of the more wealthy pensioners who lives overseas – I have met plenty of these also. Unlike me they have no problem in paying for their health insurance. By the time I found out that I had been conned about my NI contributions I was too old to buy health insurance. The only one available would have cost me more than £1000 a year and had stringent limitations.

Anything else?


beanjay

We live on about £10k a year! And our house has no land and no swimming pool and cost a total (with renovations) of £80k in 2004. So it's not a villa.

In Spain you are not covered for Health Care unless you have paid into the Spanish system (in which case the Spanish Government pay for it), or you are a British State Pensioner or on Incapacity Benefit from the UK (in which case the British Government pay for you to receive your Healthcare under the Spanish NHS).

My husband is on IB, (although he only gets a small amount as it is reduced because of his Teachers' pension) so we are covered on that. Next year I will become a State Pensioner and I will be covered in my own right.

We could not afford Health Insurance (and there would be too many pre-existing conditions) if we were not covered in this way and would have to just hope we didn't get ill, like most of the expats I know have to do.

We are lucky to be covered on the Spanish NHS, but no way are we rich!

beanjay1

Many thanks for your support healy, its people like you that make staying in the UK more pleasurable. Obviously I like a good discussion without the need to resort to personal insults and I am trying to stay on topic. I am hoping that some people will find what I have to say interesting and informative, as it is based upon my personal experience.

It can be seen from my post that I said “more wealthy” not “rich”. The more wealthy pensioners that I met overseas did not have health insurance, they just did pay as you go. They were the sort of people who had a spare £80k to spend on a villa in Spain.

The UK government defines “the breadline” for a couple as £11,762.00 a year. Below that you are eligible for benefits, so £10k a year is well within that. With my partners earnings we can just about achieve the magic figure but my HB an CT benefits still total about £30.00 a week. The figures I have given are what we would get as a couple if my partner did not work. I am quite happy to be open and honest about the benefits I receive.

Not only did I get an interrogation when I returned but I get an annual visit from a government inspector to make sure that I am still here. At this years visit she told me that I was at the very lower end of the scale regarding income and she left me leaflets regarding other benefits and grants that I could apply for.

I suspect that I am targeted for special treatment because I complained directly to the government, through the local MP and the Ombudsmans office, about my situation. My complaint highlighted a number of shortcomings in various systems, not just the one we are discussing here. I don’t think they liked that! My files are probably tagged!

krisskross

None of us who made a permanent home in Spain or wherever were entitled to NHS treatment in England. We all had to use the service provided by our country of residence or take out private medical insurance. In which case you were treated no differently to anyone else who chose to live abroad. Any returning British citizen has to prove habitual residence before they are able to use the facilities of the country and quite right too. Perhaps there was an element of suspicion about your motives for return which may have led to increased scrutiny. Certainly in our case there was no issue at all. In fact apart from filling in a very small form at the GP surgery we were never asked any questions.

Yes you are now claiming pension credit etc and enjoying a reasonable lifestyle else you wouldn't stay here. You see that is what annoyed me about your tale. The fact that you made it clear you would prefer not to have to live here but are quite happy to claim everything going whilst having contributed very little over the years.

calleyw

beanjay1 wrote: »

The UK government defines “the breadline” for a couple as £11,762.00 a year.

Could you point in the direction of this definition I am not being sarcastic I am really interested by that.

Yours


Calley

seven-day-weekend

beanjay1 wrote: »

It can be seen from my post that I said “more wealthy” not “rich”. The more wealthy pensioners that I met overseas did not have health insurance, they just did pay as you go. They were the sort of people who had a spare £80k to spend on a villa in Spain.

QUOTE]

Just to clarify, we did not have a 'spare £80k' lying around..

My m-i-l died and left my husband her bunglaow which he sold for £35k. This bought us the main house in Spain. Then when my husband took early retirement we bought the little derelict house next door with the lump sum fro his Teachers' pension for £12k.


The renovations have been done partly from other savings and partly as and when we had the money and are still not quite complete after five years.

We are not rich or even 'more wealthy'. We have an income of just under £10k from my husbands Teachers' pension and IB. We do not receive State Pension yet.

And I agree with krisskross, every returning expat has to prove habitual residence before they are entitled to benenfits or healthcare, you have been treated no differently to anyone else.

I'm glasd you have now got your Pensin Credits.

beanjay1

Hello calleyw.

All official government documents related to benefits clams contain the following somewhere: “How much the law says you need to live on. For you (and your partner where applicable) £215.50”. That is per week. (Sorry, my mistake, that is only £11,206 a year not £11,672!) You can confirm this at your local Council offices.

I just don’t understand some people here! I am not enjoying a reasonable lifestyle compared to the one I had. I am not here to lap up benefits at the expense of the taxpayer. I am here because I am forced to be here. I do not have options and I certainly cannot afford the luxury of a second home.

My return to the UK was treated as suspicious by all government departments because I made it abundantly clear to them that I would not be returning if I did not want medical treatment, and I make no secret of that. I complained officially about the fact that I was not eligible for the medical treatment that I had been lead to believe that I was entitled to. All I wanted was to have my eyes fixed and then go back. It was made clear to me that if I left the UK after receiving medical treatment there would not be a “next time”.

However there is no point in complaining about something if you are unable to come up with a suggestion to improve the situation. It is abundantly clear that the governments idea that, as far as Regulations go, one size fits all is blatantly wrong. It was my suggestion that Regulations left room for an appeal, where the appellant could show that it was in the public interest for certain regulations to be eased in some circumstances.

I was told that there were not enough cases of this type to make it a viable option but, that is because the government has no idea of the numbers involved. I personally know of seven pensioners living overseas “illegally”, some of them without even realising it, so there are probably several hundred in the same situation and that’s excluding the “wealthy” ones.

The strange thing is that if you keep your head down, as a pensioner, you can live overseas forever and still receive NHS treatment. My problem was that I did not keep my head down.

All of the pensioners that I know have told TPS that they live overseas, so how is it that they can get away with it? Simply because one government department never communicates with another. Even though they are all connected to the same computer system, the DWP never picks up the information from TPS and even if they did it would never get to the NHS. We therefore end up with stupid laws that can never be enforced unless someone reports themselves for breaking them. It would be the easiest thing in the world to make the regulations flexible enough so that people did not have to flout them.

As I said before, there are other similar examples, which I won’t go into now.