The cost of vets

orlao

Asher wrote: »

This place is reasonable
http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/pet-care/pet-care.html

They also sell other drugs/medicine so if you know what you want you can get it from there.

Also if you buy from the USA many items are available without a prescription for people such as farmers but you need to tick a disclaimer because they are not giving advice and assume you know what you are buying and how to use it. You would have to pay a customs charge for any place you import medicine from plus a post office handling charge.

I have to say that I don't agree with just giving animals drugs without the regular health checks......any more than I would expect to get a prescription from my doctor without having to see them. The risk of an adverse reaction or damage from side effects is too great IMHO.

The point of this thread is to try and find out what would work best for both vet and customer so that everyone is content because I do believe that 99% of vets AND owners have the pets best interests at heart but if owners feel hard done by because there is such a vast price difference between internet and vet med prices and vets are struggling to make a decent living because they rely on med sales to increase their practice turnover then there is only going to be more problems. It is nobodies interest to push vets out of business, however IMO vets should also look at the situation from a clients point of view.

Snowman2

Thank you for the extra info on prescription charges but what I was asking was if I had already paid for a consultation during the same visit would it be right to charge for a prescription when presumably you [EMAIL="WOULDN@T"]WOULDN'T[/EMAIL] charge a prescription fee if the meds were purchased from the practice. That's what I meant about a penalty charge, sorry if I hadn't made that clear, once again
I was thinking aloud in print:o

Mrs_pbradley936

I did not want to cause an argument and only came into the thread because someone said they were wary of internet pharmacies which is why I gave my previous links. Out of curiosity I Googled veterinary supplies USA and found loads of sites, a couple below. Those of you with an interest might want to make comparisons about supply and legalities. Always bear in mind that different States have different laws.

I would guess that most people would only be seeking cheaper options for their pet if it was something needed long term. Personally I would not shop around for a week’s worth of anti-biotics but if I was buying something every month for years to come then I probably would.


http://www.vetamerica.com/

http://www.calvetsupply.com/

snowman2_2

Firstly, I am not questioning the legality or suitability of the american sites to sell vet drugs in the US, just the legality of importing them to the UK.

Secondly, Orlao. It wouldn't be a penalty charge if it takes longer to write a prescription and the vet is charging for that extra time. For my clinical notes, I will write on the computer record the drug, strength, number and doseage whether I am dispensing the drug or not. The label is generated automatically when I write the notes. For a written prescription, I then have to go into a different program (word processor), type the owners details and drug details again, print it, walk to the printer and sign it. This may only take 2 - 3 mins but it is extra time. Our current prescription is quite a long, lengthy legal document and isn't fully integrated into the clinical records. I am sure it will be some point in the near future and that I can reduce the time taken to write one to just an extra minute. This will reduce the cost to us and ultimately the client. As for a penalty, most practices will charge a dispensing fee to cover the cost of the labels, pill bottles and time taken to dispense the drug by nursing or reception staff. Ours is only a couple of pounds but does vary - we wont charge anything on a full box, usually just on tablets or liquids dispensed from a multi-pack. The prescription charge should be fairly similar to this dispensing fee. Some practices also charge a "Medicine Determination Charge" or similar wording. This is to cover the time taken in deciding a suitable drug, working out the dose and either dispensing it or writing a prescription.

Basically it is down to the time taken. I take your point about asking at the same time as a consultation - that may be quicker than asking for a repeat prescription but it is harder to have 2 prescription prices than just one. We never charged for prescriptions beforehand so it is difficult for me to fully answer that one

wuno

Just wanted to add my backing to Snowman's points about prescription charges. I charge £23.95 (inc VAT) for a 10 minute consultation. Therefore, I'm basically saying one minute of vet time is worth £2.40. So even if it only took me a minute to write a prescription, print it out and sign it, I should still be charging you £2.40. If a prescription were written at the end of a consultation, then it might only take a minute or two, because all the details would be at hand, and in my head. However, if you just phoned up asking for a prescription, it would take me considerably longer, as I have to find your details and think about them for a bit before even starting to write a prescription.

From October, I think I will probably use the tablet dispensing fee price to charge for writing a prescription at the end of a consultation (currently 2.20 inc VAT), and will probably charge something like £10 for a prescription requested over the phone (where I don't seen the need to see the animal, of course).

I agree that to charge £15 for a prescription given at the time of consultation would be indefensible, but then no-one apart from the online suppliers is suggesting vets will charge this.

As to the larger point of this thread, I honestly feel that the "problem" is being overstated. I see very few clients who want to buy prescription drugs from online stores. I write very few prescriptions, full stop. Accordingly, at the moment, I don't see the need to change anything, because by reducing markup and increasing basic professional fees, I'm just going to confuse a large proportion of my client base. And if I made this change unilaterally, I would probably loose clients to other practices.

This is not to say that I don't acknowledge the problems faced by clients whose animals are on long-term medication. We help them by actually charging them £17.90 for each consultation that relates to their ongoing problem, rather than £23.95. In addition, I usually give a 10% discount on drug costs, particualrly if I know cost is an issue for a particular client (I have been known to go lower still in certain cases). And also, I allow them to pay me monthly in arrears rather than in 6 month lumps etc.

Whether this will become more of an issue in the future, I don't know. I suspect that apathy will always mean people take the easier option, and get their drugs from their vet.

cocoluvsmummy

I had been reading this tread with interest as i have been about to run out of money on my insurance. Firstly i dont think i would have run out of monet half so quickly if the vet had not been charging double what the medication is available in the internet.

Jess has today been issued with a new antibiotic to take and we have asked the vet to provide us with a written priscription so i can purchase over the internet, this will mean Jess has to wait until tuesday to start her new antibiotics and this is not completly in her best inerests but as she has had the infection for 8 weeks already and it has been unsuccessfulty treated i doubt that a few extra days will make a great deal of differenece.

I have always supported my vet in their charging policies and felt that a little markup on the medication was acceptable as it covers the service as a whole.. but i now feel that i have been taken advantage of, the new medication Jess has been presribed (Oxytetracycline) will cost me £98.20 from my vet, from 2 online pet pharmacies it will be £20.16 inc delivery.

lisa2905

Exactly cocoluvsmummy thats what I started on page one, you are in exactly the same position as me !!! I have to now get my drugs at the cheapest place which unfortunately is on line. I have supported and purchased off my vets for years but I have to watch the pennies nowadays. Unfortunately thats life, and no-one in their right mind would purchase any goods when they are so expensive at one place when you can get exactly the same goods elsewhere for half the price. !!! Isn't that what this site is all about !!!!

chartreuse_2

We've experienced:
(a) A practice pushing pills on the basis of a very shakey diagnosis. Further tests, which we insisted on, despite the practice's reluctance, contra-indicated the meds.
(b) Delay and inconvenience in getting specialist diets, due to what appears to be a gentleman's agreement between pet stores and vets to maintain the fiction that it's illegal to sell such foods without a prescription. Despite the fact that they're freely available online.
(c) A practice calling us at home to tell us that buying meds (with a prescription) from anyone but them would expose us to counterfeits and endanger our pet's life.
(d) Vets cutting conversations short, failing to return calls or getting in trouble with their practice heads as spending time on such is not profitable. Even though I'd be more than happy to pay.

Frankly, the above is shocking. Sadly, I've asked around and, as far as my contacts know, there's never been a successful prosecution of a veterinary practice under consumer protection legislation as no other vet could ever be found to offer expert evidence for the prosecution.

I'm sure that the vets in this thread are caring, decent people. But this bad business model seems to be not only widespread, but endorsed by the guild. And I worry about how much influence their guild has, over practitioners in general.

stephvetnurse

Right this is silly

I am a Registered Veterinary Nurse and have been in practice for 9 years.

Yes some vets seem to charge a lot BUT this is due to the high running costs of a practice....you have bills, you have equipment to buy to keep the parctice at the highest levels, you have constant training to attend, you have staff to pay, you have drugs to buy

When you visit a vet you pay for the vets time, you will often see a receptionist and possibly a nurse during your time there, so technically you are paying for them as well.

Often vets will not charge for you to see a nurse so you are getting a highly qualified persons time for nothing

Yes drugs can seem expensive compared to online pharmacys yet this is because of the other overheads that go into stocking them. Online pharmacys can generally be run from one persons garage in theory by one person therfore keeping overheads to a minimum.

Do you want your pet to have the best possible care? yes? then go to a decent reputable vet and get cover for life insurance when you first get your pet

If you dont care that much then WHY OH WHY have you got a pet in the 1st place?

Vets were forced to stop charging for written prescriptions a few yrs ago and that ban is about to be lifted. I expect that the general charge will be between £5 and £10 per prescription. If you got to the doctor for insurance reasons etc you are expected to pay, plus you have to pay for px on the NHS

Vets do not force you to take your animals to see them, but if you were found to have not taken your pet to the vets and it was suffering you could be charged with animal cruelty.

When we request to see you pet again before we issue another prescription it is a) for your pets good and b) the LAW!

We dont run useless or unnecessary tests everything we do is for a reason and for the good of your animal. Yes when a pet is insured and money is not really an issue we will sometimes delve a bit further and if money is a bit of a problem we possibly wont go as far. It all depends on you the pet owner allowing us to do whats best for your animal.

I am lucky now to work at a referral hospital where 95% of the patients are insured and we can do as many in depth tests as we can to find the cause of pets problems.

Chartreuse: It sounds like you have had a bad experience, and for that on behalf of the vet profession I apologise, However:
specialist diets are precription foods and will not be sold to pet shops so foods such as hills k/d or rcw renal or purina om are all solely provided through veterinary wholesalers hence the ability for the online pharmacys to get hold of them and sell them.

With regards obtaining human drugs it is illegal and vets are having a hard time as licensed drugs for animals are more expensive into the practice then the old generic drugs so for example synulox has to be sold in the vet world not amoxycillin e3ven though they are the same drug in theory. A lot of these drugs have had rigourous testing and actually the companies do try and make them palatable for the animals where generic drugs tend to be awful tasting etc for your pet.
There is a thing called the cascade system which veterinary practices have to work through :
first we have to prescribe a drug that is licensed for that condition in that species of animal
if that isnt possible we have to find a drug that is licensed for that condition in any animal
lastly we can use generic drugs IF and ONLY IF we cannot find a drug that works (and only if it has known effects!)
It is a very very sticky area

The vet world is ruled by the RCVS (and as far as meds go the VMD) anyone who feels that their pet has suffered as a direct cause of action by a vet can always complain to the RCVS and several vets have been struck off for various things.
However you need to be able to prove that the vet harmed your animal in someway.

Apologies for the length of this post but got fed up with everything going on here and all the ppl thinking vets are money grabbing ppl, most vets i know are in huge debt buying things on the never never to help the pets of this country...reading some of the posts on here I wonder why as ppl dont seem to appreciate the hard work that goes on training and actually running a vet practice!

lisa2905

Well looking at their cars and personal plates in the car park at my vets and the referral vets I went to they don't do too bad !!!

red_bertie

When a pet is sick, people are distraught and by and large will pay whatever the cost, even if they are not insured. There is a high level of trust involved and I'm afraid the more unscrupulous practices will exploit this. Owners do not have the knowledge to dispute treatment regimes or to judge the competence of the practioner.

I agree Stephvetnurse that most vets are pretty decent and will only make a fair charge.

I deal with a number of veterinary practices - some of the staff are very well qualified and CPD is encouraged and the practice owner clearly invests in their business and people. Some are 'on the ball' and others 'marking time', making big bucks where they can.

However, some of the practices' have unqualified support staff [nurses mainly], inadequate facilities/equipment, apalling out-of date theatre/after care environments and can only perform basic stuff, but they charge the same as the ones who invest.

I have seen copies of bills for like for like treatments - insured always comes higher and this is why we owners have had hiked premiums from insurance providers.

We know which vets 'stick the arm in' in our area and which go over the top in treatment - and put whacking mark-ups on repeat meds/vet diet charges.

Vets now [the 24hr central service] has an out of hours monopoly in our area, people have no choice but to use them in an emergency and whilst I appreciate they have a high overhead, the charges are seriously scarey.

Snowman, I know from your previous posts that you are one of the 'decent guys' and Wuno appears to be too.

I get very bitter when I see some of the money making exercises carried out on an ongoing basis by greedy vets [especially if it is pets owned by older folk] and most of the time I keep my gob shut, but sometimes I have to admit to a bit of subtle redirection!