should we get rid of our tenants in order tosell quick?

Premier_2

barnaby-bear wrote: »

but the housing laws satutory rights overrule anything a landlord chooses to add to a tenancy and they can deny access under "quiet enjoyment" just because it's in a tenancy agreement doesn't make it enforceable you could add a carefully worded 3 seconds notice clause if you like :rotfl:

The tenant is allowed quiet enjoyment of the property and, if allowed under the TA, the LL (or agent) is allowed to enter the property for the purposes of showing it to prospective purchasers or renters, given reasonable notice to the existing tenants.

The two clauses are not mutually exclusive.

The OFT suggest a 24hour notice period for it to be deemed 'reasonable' and fair.

franklee

Premier wrote: »

The tenant is allowed quiet enjoyment of the property and, if allowed under the TA, the LL (or agent) is allowed to enter the property for the purposes of showing it to prospective purchasers or renters, given reasonable notice to the existing tenants.

The two clauses are not mutually exclusive.

The OFT suggest a 24hour notice period for it to be deemed 'reasonable' and fair.

Yes, but the tenant can still refuse access. That's a breach of the tenancy agreement by the tenant but the point remains access to the landlord is still denied. At which point the landlord can either put up with no access and try and sue the tenant for compensation or go to court for a court order for access.

If the landlord tries any of your ideas from earlier, like just going in anyway against the tenant's express wishes, or changing the locks again if the tenant had changed them to deny the access, then the landlord will be breaching the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment, will be harassing the tenant and liable for a large fine and even a criminal offence.

So the sensible landlord negotiates nicely for access at a time that is mutually convenient for both the viewer and the tenant and if that is denied he will be ill advised to go steaming in like you recommended earlier in this thread.

My express instruction would be no access unless I can be present and it may well be that 24 hours isn't enough to arrange being home. It would also depend on the number of viewings, I would accept a small number but if it ran to over a dozen then I'd start refusing. Also a 24 notice period can easily be abused - what's to stop the landlord sending out 24 hour notice letters requesting access every afternoon after 3pm (actual viewings pre booked or not) and then just cancelling if no one wants to turn up.

Then again how does the landlord quantify his loss if say one viewing in four is refused? It really isn't that simple. I just say in this market it would not sell anyway so lack of the odd viewing doesn't matter

Premier_2

franklee wrote:

If the landlord tries any of your ideas from earlier, like just going in anyway against the tenant's express wishes, or changing the locks again if the tenant had changed them to deny the access, then the landlord will be breaching the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment, will be harassing the tenant and liable for a large fine and even a criminal offence.

I believe you must be mistaking me for someone else. I've never suggested the LL does anything criminal. I answered a question over what could a LL do if the tenant didn't let the LL or his agent in. The answer I gave was in line with the clause I mentioned was commonly found in most TA's. The locksmith would be employed to gain legal entry where a tenant such as you had changed the locks. In regards to the other allegations you make, I suggest you are mistaken by either what I wrote or by who posted what.

There is no 'loss' for the LL to establish. Failure to provide access by the tenant to the LL or his agent after having been given resonable notice is a breach of the TA by the tenant.

A tenancy doesn't just give you rights - it also brings responsibilities. It's important you stick to the rules and don't break your tenancy agreement, and to get advice as soon as possible if you have problems.
Most tenants can be evicted (providing the correct procedure is followed) if they don't follow certain basic rules. These include:...


Giving your landlord access when necessary

Most tenancy agreements contain information about how and when your landlord can get access to the property, for example, if repairs are needed. You are entitled to be given reasonable notice of this....

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/tenants_responsibilities

Landlords may need access to the accommodation to inspect it and do repairs but they must let you live in your home without unnecessary interference. If you are a tenant then your landlord can't come in whenever they feel like it, and should give proper notice and arrange a suitable time if they need to visit. The amount of notice they have to give might be set out in your agreement. If you have a licence, your right to restrict your landlord from coming in is more limited, so get advice before you do anything.

You can ask your landlord to stop entering your home without your permission. It may be classed as harassment if s/he persists.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/landlords_responsibilities

silvercar

Tenants never show the property at its best (and why should they).

A house proud tenant will show the house clean and tidy, whereas a seller keen to get a quick sale will go the extra mile; clear clutter, fresh flowers, smell of coffee......

Debt_Free_Chick

These points about access and quiet enjoyment have been "done to death" before here - with no definitive outcome.

My understanding on the access is that the tenant cannot unreasonably withhold their consent to the LL's request for access. The question then is "what is unreasonable?" I would suggest that a blanket "no - no access" is unreasonable as there is no rational argument to support it. One might try and use the "quiet enjoyment" argument, but if access is required for a viewing or maintenance/repair and it can take place quickly, without the tenant being present, then the quiet enjoyment argument might not be won.

At the end of the day, though, none of us can definitively state the position as it needs to be tested in the Courts. My guess is that a Court is unlikely to rule that a LL can never access the property (which, we must not forget, he/she owns) and that some access, agreed with the tenant, for good reason is likely to be the outcome. But them, who am I? Not a lawyer, that's for sure

franklee

Of course a tenant can unreasonably withhold their consent to the LL's request for access. Just like a tenant can unreasonably refuse to pay rent. Or unreasonably refuse to be quiet after 11pm. Or unreasonably do anything else that a tenant can so easily and unreasonably do. Anyone thinking different would be mad to be a landlord as they have no concept of the risks they are taking in letting out a property.

The question is if the tenant refuses access and that is in breach if the tenancy agreement then what would a landlord be advised to do about it! Simply repeating oh dear the nasty tenant has breached the tenancy agreement does not answer this issue.

Just like a landlord should not nick the missing rent money from the tenant's wallet, he should not seek redress from a refusal for viewing by just going in anyway, or even by changing the locks as some misguided fools here advocate. The reason being that if he does he stands to lose far more than the tenant does.

Quiet enjoyment does not require the tenant to be present at the time of the offence. Just think how you would like complete strangers tramping through your home when you are not there, same applies to the tenant. Even if you are happy for viewings in your absence you cannot impose your own values on the tenant. At the end of the day whist it is the landlord's property it is also for the duration of the tenancy the tenant's home and that means handing control of the property over to the tenant. If the landlord does not wish to do this then he needn't let the property in the first place.

If it goes to court then I suspect the landlord would be granted access but the fact is that takes some time to achieve by which time the issue will likely have gone away anyway as any notice period would be up and the tenant gone. Then the landlord would have an empty property and can do what he likes.

melancholly

brit1234 wrote: »

There will be so few off them as house prices would of fallen 50% with all those 100,000s of but to let flats on repossession sales. There will be enough council housing then for the rest. I see no problem.

i like renting - i'm on relatively short-term temporary contracts and i know that in the next 5 years i will have to move regularly, sometimes across the country! i don't want to buy, i want to rent and ignore the maintenance issues and leave at a month's notice. i don't want to be regularly going through the hassle of buying and selling, on top of relocating and starting jobs in new cities. renting isn't just for people too poor to buy - for some of us it really is the most efficient way to live (as long as i can continue to put money into savings each month while i rent).

i don't want to have to deal with council housing which will never be as efficient as a private landlord in terms of getting me somewhere a week before i need to move in. i also want choice in where i live, within what i can afford, and don't want to be allocated somewhere by the council.

Premier_2

franklee wrote: »

...At the end of the day whist it is the landlord's property it is also for the duration of the tenancy the tenant's home and that means handing control of the property over to the tenant. If the landlord does not wish to do this then he needn't let the property in the first place...

...Perhaps a tenant needs to understand their responsibilities too

A tenancy doesn't just give you rights - it also brings responsibilities. It's important you stick to the rules and don't break your tenancy agreement, and to get advice as soon as possible if you have problems.
Most tenants can be evicted (providing the correct procedure is followed) if they don't follow certain basic rules. These include:...


Giving your landlord access when necessary

Most tenancy agreements contain information about how and when your landlord can get access to the property, for example, if repairs are needed. You are entitled to be given reasonable notice of this....

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/tenants_responsibilities

Landlords may need access to the accommodation to inspect it and do repairs but they must let you live in your home without unnecessary interference. If you are a tenant then your landlord can't come in whenever they feel like it, and should give proper notice and arrange a suitable time if they need to visit. The amount of notice they have to give might be set out in your agreement. If you have a licence, your right to restrict your landlord from coming in is more limited, so get advice before you do anything.

You can ask your landlord to stop entering your home without your permission. It may be classed as harassment if s/he persists.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/landlords_responsibilities

moneysavinmonkey

Premier wrote: »

...Perhaps a tenant needs to understand their responsibilities too


http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/tenants_responsibilities


http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/landlords_responsibilities

I've seen you posting this on various threads now premier - you do realise that it reinforces the view that the tenant can withhold access and there is not much the landlord can do...
ie. link one says tenant should allow access if in tenancy agreement -> if they don't potentially served notice
link two says tenant can refuse access and then the landlord can not enter ->doing so is a criminal offence (harassment)

so if the tenant doesn't want any viewings/visits the most they will face is posession notice at end of tenancy term, the landlord can't do anything else or they could potentially face criminal charges... sounds like the 1- nill to the tenants yo me!! :rotfl:

Premier_2

moneysavinmonkey wrote: »

I've seen you posting this on various threads now premier - you do realise that it reinforces the view that the tenant can withhold access and there is not much the landlord can do...
ie. link one says tenant should allow access if in tenancy agreement -> if they don't potentially served notice
link two says tenant can refuse access and then the landlord can not enter ->doing so is a criminal offence (harassment)

so if the tenant doesn't want any viewings/visits the most they will face is posession notice at end of tenancy term, the landlord can't do anything else or they could potentially face criminal charges... sounds like the 1- nill to the tenants yo me!! :rotfl:

So you don't think tenants should take their responsibilities seriously?

A tenancy doesn't just give you rights - it also brings responsibilities. It's important you stick to the rules and don't break your tenancy agreement, and to get advice as soon as possible if you have problems.
Most tenants can be evicted (providing the correct procedure is followed) if they don't follow certain basic rules. These include:...


Giving your landlord access when necessary

Most tenancy agreements contain information about how and when your landlord can get access to the property, for example, if repairs are needed. You are entitled to be given reasonable notice of this....

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/tenants_responsibilities

Landlords may need access to the accommodation to inspect it and do repairs but they must let you live in your home without unnecessary interference. If you are a tenant then your landlord can't come in whenever they feel like it, and should give proper notice and arrange a suitable time if they need to visit. The amount of notice they have to give might be set out in your agreement. If you have a licence, your right to restrict your landlord from coming in is more limited, so get advice before you do anything.

You can ask your landlord to stop entering your home without your permission. It may be classed as harassment if s/he persists.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/landlords_responsibilities