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should we get rid of our tenants in order tosell quick?
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Excatly, but there is no legal right being taken away here.MissMoneypenny wrote: »You can't take away someones legal rights in a contract.
"Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 20100 -
My highlighting - not simply an understandable& perfectly reasonable desire but a legal right.Gorgeous_George wrote: »There are always two sides to every story. There are two people with different needs and desires.
The LL wants to sell and needs to show potential buyers around the property. Sometimes this can unreasonably impact the tenats' desires for quiet enjoyment.
..,. and sometimes the LL behaves in an arrogant fashion without due regard for the tenant. Presumably if , as a LL, you're arranging viewings then you either already have given notice or are intending to do so.Gorgeous_George wrote: »More often it is not a problem. Sometimes the tenant has a massive chip on their shoulder and takes delight in making things difficult for their LL. I would have no issues with ending the tenancy at the first opportunity if my tenant was being unreasonably awkward.
Agree wholeheartedly GG, but it appears that there are LLs who don't, on this issue.Gorgeous_George wrote: »If we could treat people in the manner that we, ourselves, would wish to be treated, the world would be a better place.0 -
But of course, never the tenants who want everything their own way, and when they don't get it start quoting various laws that they totally fail to understand the real meaning of....Agree wholeheartedly GG, but it appears that there are LLs who don't, on this issue."Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 20100 -
If all landlords treated their customers fairly, Shelter would not exist.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/Living Sober.
Some methods A.A. members have used for not drinking.
"A simple book for complicated people"0 -
RecoveringAlcoholic wrote: »If all landlords treated their customers fairly, Shelter would not exist.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/
Right. That's a useful link, here is what they say about the subject that has caused some discussion on this thread:
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/private_tenancies/assured_shorthold_tenancies#3
Your right to live in your accommodation undisturbed.
You have the right to live in your accommodation without being disturbed. You have control over your home so that your landlord and other people cannot freely enter whenever they want to. Your landlord cannot limit or otherwise interfere with your right to live in your home. If your landlord tries to do this s/he may be guilty of harassment, which is against the law.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/eviction/harassment_and_illegal_eviction/what_counts_as_harassment
Examples of harassment
o entering your home when you are not there, without your permission
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Thanks for clearing that up - nothing whatsoever under that link that suggests the entering the property with reason given notice is harrassmentRight. That's a useful link, here is what they say about the subject that has caused some discussion on this thread:
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/private_tenancies/assured_shorthold_tenancies#3
Your right to live in your accommodation undisturbed.
You have the right to live in your accommodation without being disturbed. You have control over your home so that your landlord and other people cannot freely enter whenever they want to. Your landlord cannot limit or otherwise interfere with your right to live in your home. If your landlord tries to do this s/he may be guilty of harassment, which is against the law.
Edit: see also Tenant responsibilities
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/tenants_responsibilitiesA tenancy doesn't just give you rights - it also brings responsibilities. It's important you stick to the rules and don't break your tenancy agreement...
Most tenants can be evicted (providing the correct procedure is followed) if they don't follow certain basic rules. These include:
...
Giving your landlord access when necessary
Most tenancy agreements contain information about how and when your landlord can get access to the property, for example, if repairs are needed. You are entitled to be given reasonable notice of this...
I could equally say "If all tenants treated their landlords fairly, Shelter would not exist" but I don't because I know the charity does much more important and valuable work than just settle silly disputes between LLs & tenants.
Personally I'm not convinced a case for eviction purely because the tenant is playing silly bu99ers and not allowing access would hold much water,I'm just quoting from the website. There's a lot easier and sure ways for a LL to secure an eviction through the courts."Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 20100 -
This might have some relevance to this discussion about harassment.
While the conduct must be unwanted by the recipient, it does not necessarily have to be that the harasser has a motive or an intention to harass. So it is still harassment even if the harasser does not know there is harm caused by their actions.
Protection from Harassment Act 1997. Under this act the definition of harassment is behavior which causes alarm or distress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassment_(UK)bubblesmoney :hello:0 -
It's clearly written in the contract. Any offence would be a civil one by the tenant not allowing entry.
The offence by the tenant by breaching the tenancy agreement would be a civil one but that's not the point we are discussing. What we are discussing is the landlord's actions in retaliating - entering the property for a viewing without the tenant's consent. That is a more serious offence.A tenant cannot unilaterally decide to beach the tenancy agreement.
Eh? Tenants unilaterally breach tenancy agreements all the time. The issue is once the tenant has done this what does the landlord then do about it.If the tenant didn't agree to the tem , the tenant should,'t have signed the TA in the first instance.
Perhaps the tenant thought the landlord would be reasonable in arranging mutually agreeable appointments, the TA does not give the landlord carte blanche to dictate when the viewings are. Otherwise it would allow for example for the landlord to write saying that viewings will be held at 9pm and 2pm every day till the property is sold.The LL has the tenants permission, by the mere act of the tenant signing the TA.
The tenant can withdraw this permission. Signing the TA does not mean that the landlord can have a viewing next Tuesday at 2pm if that date is not acceptable to the tenant.The agent is allowed entry as it is the LL's agent - as specified in the TA.
If the agent commits a criminal offence by entering the tenant's home without permission then it is the landlord who is responsible as the agent is acting on behalf of the landlord.... and I'd have no hesitation in employing a locksmith to gain rightful entry.
So the tenant changes the locks storing them away safely to reinstate at the end if the tenancy. You the landlord on discovering this employ a locksmith to change the locks to a third set? That sounds very much like illegal eviction to me. Again the offence the landlord has committed here has greater penalties than the one the tenant committed. This is because the tenant is paying rent for the exclusive use and quiet enjoyment of the property. If the landlord is not happy to grant this then he should get rid of the tenant (or not let the property in the first instance).But to be honest, I wouldn't need to as I wouldn't even entertain a request for a TA from a person with an attitude like yours.
Ah, something we agree upon, we would not be doing any business together. You are a landlord I take it?0 -
Please dont sell it. Why does anyone ever sell a property?
Are you honestly telling me that it wont be worth double its current value, in ten years time? That being the case, your tiny loss each month, is nothing, compared to its future potential growth.
If your current mortgage is on the repayment basis, swop it to an interest only arrangement. That way you reduce your outgoings to a minimal amount, whilst retaining your asset, for future growth.
Stop trying to manage the property, and manage the agent, instead. Replace the agent, if needed, and NEVER pay an agent more than 8%. Thats the highest that I pay any of mine, and they respect you far more, for negotiating this. They then know not to mess with you, because you are an expert!!!
Remember, when you sell a property, you hand over all of its future growth, to someone else. Its a bit like planting an apple tree, and getting it to grow. Then just before it fruits, you chop it down, and sell it for firewood. Instant profit, but your tree has gone. Why not keep the tree, enjoy a few fruits (release some equity every few years), and plant some more pips (invest in further properties), and have an orchard that allows you to retire financially free. Still want to chop your tree down?
Good luck, whatever you decide....0 -
Thanks for clearing that up - nothing whatsoever under that link that suggests the entering the property with reason given notice is harrassment
Is if if the tenant has specifically told the agent/LL that he does not want that viewing to take place because that would entail the agent/LL/viewer to enter the property without the tenant's permission.0
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