Are YOU responsible for your spending & debt?

kel123_2

i'm off to bed but I want to add to my list

Interest rate - on a small mortgage in spain 3.59%, UK >7%
Bank charges - only ever had any when I transfered from one bank to another, in spain it is the bank that the money goes into that charges you but no were near the UK charges, If you want to transfer from Lloyds (uk) then it's a charge to change it to euros, and charge to handle euros then a charge to send it, (about £25 for the first £100). resently they have said that they are dropping the send it charge if you send it to Lloyds (spain)

Broken_hearted

Back_From_Hell wrote: »

OK lets put this into a real life scenario.

I had a client that had to declare himself bankrupt after falling ill and not being able to meet his commitments, but this was after five years of being harassed by his creditors, in a way im sure you’re all familiar.

His partner was financially tied to him yet from the time he went bankrupt to the time of his discharge her creditors increased her credit limits by 15K.

She wasn’t even working, but they never asked

Now the interesting bit is she had virtually no increase in the years before.

Knowing there financial situation it would have been so easy to use at least some of that potential credit in times of need, for example school uniforms for there kids as they where picked on for not wearing the latest designer label etc.

The bottom line is that family unit could not afford that credit, yet it was offered anyway. Yes it would have been wrong to use it, but it is also wrong to see there children suffer. No win situation for any parent.

The question I want an answer too is why the limits suddenly increased after her husband’s bankruptcy when they where static before? Not that I need one, the companies in question saw a soft target and went for it.

That in my eyes would make them to blame.

Emotive but still not the banks fault although your viewpoint may have led your cliants to believe it was.
Lets loook at it another way. Young healthy dual income couple one suddenly becomes ill, they sort out a DMP to pay back the debts. Any increases to her credit limits are declined. They get themselves out of debt albeit slowly and life goes on. Instead of being victims of the banking system they are empowered and learn from their situation.
Why? bacause life is hard enough without you making yourself bitter playing victim. Some things are other people fault others are our own greed/naievity but at the end of the day the only one who can help us is ourselves.

benbenandme

I agree that financial education is severely lacking and much needed :rolleyes: However, I also don't think its fair to blame the banks for lending the money, they are businesses selling a product / service like all other businesses.

A theoretical situation: Billy walks into a shop and buys a new tv / laptop / etc etc on his credit card ... forward a couple of years and he can no longer meet his payments and then blames the bank for lending him the money. Why are we blaming the bank rather than the shop that sells the attractive goodies?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Surely they are as much "to blame" as the bank??

PROLIANT

It all comes down to the "nanny state" that we live in, I will be all big and brash, go and spend money that I don’t have and when it all goes tits up, I will blame somebody else, that is it, the bottom line here, when are people in the UK going to take responsibility and ownership of their lives, take the laws for example the HSE states now that the company is responsible for the actions of any employee, !!!!!!, so if I cause the death/injury of a member of staff at work, I walk away while the company who has done nothing wrong gets prosecuted? This is just a small example of what a pathetic nation Great Brittan has become, wrap everybody in cotton wool and tell them "there there, everything will be ok" I long for the day when a government with a backbone get's this country by the ears and kicks it up the a*se and tell it "no more! Enough is enough"

babyharry5

Gemmzie wrote: »

I agree, financial responsibility isn't about age.

you can sign a legal agreement at 18 - however i do feel that most people at this age certainly dont have the financial responsibiility!
this comes from xx no of years experience as a debt manager within a large bank.
From a young age my mum taught me to put money away and pay my way. I have had a huge number of debts in the past for large amounts and even though it was difficult it was all paid back every penny.

Most youngsters do not see the financial implications ahead in their future years - when they finally settle down and want a mortgage etc
It is only then that they see the error of their younger days
This country is making it far too easy to get away without paying what ultimately YOU have spent.

Also I DO agree that banks overcharge ridiculously for dd's overdrafts and all the rest - and some people with budget mismanagement etc are penalised -
BUT how annoying when people who constantly take the p with their bank accounts knowing full well when they pay for something that the money isnt in the account - then get rewarded with all their charges back!

PROLIANT

babyharry5 wrote: »

you can sign a legal agreement at 18 - however i do feel that most people at this age certainly dont have the financial responsibiility!
this comes from xx no of years experience as a debt manager within a large bank.
From a young age my mum taught me to put money away and pay my way. I have had a huge number of debts in the past for large amounts and even though it was difficult it was all paid back every penny.

Most youngsters do not see the financial implications ahead in their future years - when they finally settle down and want a mortgage etc
It is only then that they see the error of their younger days
This country is making it far too easy to get away without paying what ultimately YOU have spent.

Also I DO agree that banks overcharge ridiculously for dd's overdrafts and all the rest - and some people with budget mismanagement etc are penalised -
BUT how annoying when people who constantly take the p with their bank accounts knowing full well when they pay for something that the money isnt in the account - then get rewarded with all their charges back!

Nail on the head Harry!

natweststaffmember

I agree almost entirely with you, babyharry, apart from your last sentence. I find it annoying if someone KNOWINGLY abused their account and got all their charges back, however we currently have an OFT test case ongoing on charges. If the charges were fair in the first place then they would not have a leg to stand on with refunds. Financial responsibility is the individual and the individual alone. I spend money I earn money I have to pay back what I have spent. I spent the money so I owe the money. I do remember the beginnings of the "here and now culture" and I do believe that banks were IRRESPONSIBLY lending when checks were not properly made and it was more about targets.
There was a time when the easiest way to increase your credit limit on your card was to pay the minimum and guess what, BINGO, credit limit increase letter comes out.
This culture has changed in my opinion but the aftermath is for those that chose to take out loans at a time when they could not afford it and spent above their means and found themselves unable to repay what they had spent.

babyharry5

continualdiamond wrote: »

For my OH and I yes/no to us being responsible for our debt. We had no debt when we moved in together and thus between us have ranked up £22,000.

To begin with i say the bank is responsible for starting us off with debt. We were living in a mobile caravan, horrible, horrible place. We needed what i now see as a tiny sum of £800 for mths rent in advance/bond.

We wanted a £800 overdraft, bank said no, but gave us a £4,000 limit credit card. Now looking back to me that beggers belief on how that was responsible lending.

£800 to be used on exactly what we wanted, no more and the credit would of vanished.

£4,000 obviously covered the £800 we needed and god knows what the rest of the money went on.

Fast forward 2 years, house move from renting fully furnished to buying our own place = no furniture. (we had a washing machine of our own that was it)

Again more credit as obviously needed everything. (few mistakes in between,£18,000 did not go on furnishing the house, it includes store cards and catalogues etc)

Now stuck with £22,000 debt (not including mortgage), on a DMP with payplan and OH out of work and can not afford to live. My wage only covers the bills and as much as we hate doing it, have to relie on OH's parents giving us money so we can buy food and put petrol in the car.

Have no social life, haven't been anywhere in 6mths, cannot afford a meal out,drinks with friends or even a £15 ahead retirement do for some people at work, or the cinema or to drive any great distance, petrol is just enough for me to get to work and back.

Had my 1st hair cut in 6mths last week, had to put money away for it every mth to get £25 to afford it and i loved every minute of treating myself.

Life is just one big stress ball at the minute, its no life at all and where both 26..........

Gosh I'm going to sound harsh here!
I personally don't think this is the banks fault - you chose to rent rather than stay in the caravan.
You chose to spend the 4k on the credit card - rather than the £800 you needed and then cut up the card??
as you said "god knows what the rest of the money went on"
you said you needed everything - i say you wanted everything - there is a big difference!
A FEW MISTAKES in between as well cost an extra £18k!
store cards, more credit cards, catalogues.
Yes life is hard but I really dont thinks it is fair to blame anyone but yourself for the debt - at the moment as your hubbie lost his job then that is not your fault however his employers are not responsible for your debt and people can buy insurance to protect your debts in the event of redundancy.
As you now said ; to save up and have a haircut and treat your self is lovely, because that was your money that you were spending and not the banks/credit companies!
I wish you the best of luck but financial ownership/responisibility is key to people realising how they got into this situation in the first place - people who blame others and not themselves will all too easily get into this mess again

babyharry5

natweststaffmember wrote: »

I agree almost entirely with you, babyharry, apart from your last sentence. I find it annoying if someone KNOWINGLY abused their account and got all their charges back, however we currently have an OFT test case ongoing on charges. If the charges were fair in the first place then they would not have a leg to stand on with refunds. Financial responsibility is the individual and the individual alone. I spend money I earn money I have to pay back what I have spent. I spent the money so I owe the money. I do remember the beginnings of the "here and now culture" and I do believe that banks were IRRESPONSIBLY lending when checks were not properly made and it was more about targets.
There was a time when the easiest way to increase your credit limit on your card was to pay the minimum and guess what, BINGO, credit limit increase letter comes out.
This culture has changed in my opinion but the aftermath is for those that chose to take out loans at a time when they could not afford it and spent above their means and found themselves unable to repay what they had spent.

no, the charges arent fair - but banks didnt hide them - people knew what they were being charged and continued to abuse accounts!
closing the stable door after the horse has bolted !
One of the reasons that I finished working with my employer after 13/14 years was as you said above - loose credit checks - quick look at payslip for one of the customers 'better' weeks and a complete oversight of their other credit for fear of the income multiplier not working out! - couldnt live with myself any longer knowing that employers putting clients in very very difficult positions! chose to leave

ZTD

benbenandme wrote: »

I agree that financial education is severely lacking and much needed :rolleyes: However, I also don't think its fair to blame the banks for lending the money, they are businesses selling a product / service like all other businesses.

But they're not.

If you want advice, you're told to talk to you bank. Yet the bank has no duty of care to ensure that advice is true. Your hairdresser has more liability in that regard.

A restaurant sells food that isn't as described, he gets fined and threatened with prison. A bank sells PPI that can never be used as described, and it's "mis-selling" (Fraud being a naughty word), and although the amounts make the restaurant case look like a rounding error - prison is never mentioned.

You might be liable for your loan, but the blame for it is a much murkier area.