Are YOU responsible for your spending & debt?

TighterThanTwoCoatsOfPain

OP - you must have read my mind, was thinking about exactly this thread.

I am very much in the "pay it back" camp.... (except genuine extreme circumstances)

"oh, but i cant buy my luxuries and it will take me 10+ years" - pfft, nobody held a gun to your head and made you take the cruise, the new car and the new TV.

These have become a very emotive topic and over the last week. Dare to say anything other than "yeah, screw the bank, lets get them back and milk them for all they're worth" gets your posts deleted!

Dont get me wrong, i feel for those who strayed over a limit then the charges levied spiral the debt out of control, but these are the minority, (and usually its not once, but repeat offenders - yup i acknowledge i'm generalising)

more recently the posts making me fume are those who have enjoyed the cash and want a quick win to get out of it, not the genuine cases.

I read one earlier where my reply got me flamed by a random with the justification that the poster ought to get a reduced settlement because they had paid the big bad bank hundreds in interest already!!

!!!!!! why didnt someone tell me, i have paid more on my mortgage than i borrowed, perhaps i should get an early settlement too, me and the bank will call it quits right??

My attitude is this is where folk should come to get help / advice on SAVING to help them pay their debts not dodge them, but seems to be losing its way recently..

/goes to grab a beer and chill out haha - good thread. :-)

Back_From_Hell

May I throw a little twist into the mix?

What if the debtor, for whatever reason, was in no fit state at the time of lending, and spending the money, to be responsible for there actions, would the argument that if the bank took the time to ascertain the clients situation be at least financially prudent?

Yet we see banks and other companies increase credit card limits with no checks at all.

And what would be deemed as no fit state? Frantic on how you where going to feed the kids? Or would you have to be certifiable to be excused?

Some would argue there isn’t much difference in the above examples

Is it always as simple as those who spent it are to blame?

One other point regarding the comment on interest, out of curiosity, how many people do you think realized what the APR meant in monetary terms? And why is it not made clearer at the time of application? (Sort of a rhetorical question really that one)

Bayblue

I'm sorry but unless someone is not of sound mind OR the financial institution has broken a rule or law then I don't see how anyone but the person who accepted the credit is responsible for paying it back. Companies obviously have a duty to make reasonable checks, but it's neither practical or possible for them to check every applicants financial status or budgets in great detail. A few years ago I needed a car so I applied for a loan from a well known lender. I think that I would have been a bit insulted if they'd asked to see detailed proof of how I spent MY money and my budgeting before agreeing to lend me the cash.

We can't be protected from everything in life, we have to be able to make our own decisions, financial or otherwise, without someone else deciding what's best for us in all aspects of life all of the time.

My debts are entirely of my own making and are my responsibility to pay back. And I think that way even though I was made redundant a few months ago which obviously made the money situation far more worrying. I learnt a harsh lesson, but then again I should have had some money set aside for such emergencies, but no I didn't I chose to spend and waste money. 'Live and learn' as they say, I certainly I won't make the same mistake again and leave myself so vulnerable.

I make no moral judgements on how other people handle their debts, that's for them to decide. One thing I have noticed recently though is that whilst 'trolling' and anyone who criticise any DFWers are (rightly) considered the lowest of the low it seems quite acceptable to use name calling when applied to banks, credit card companies and to those who work there. Whilst I understand the frustrations behind some of it it does seem a bit childish and has put me off this place bit TBH, but perhaps that's just me. I still think it's a great site though.

Back_From_Hell

Bayblue wrote: »

I'm sorry but unless someone is not of sound mind OR the financial institution has broken a rule or law then I don't see how anyone but the person who accepted the credit is responsible for paying it back. Companies obviously have a duty to make reasonable checks, but it's neither practical or possible for them to check every applicants financial status or budgets in great detail. A few years ago I needed a car so I applied for a loan from a well known lender. I think that I would have been a bit insulted if they'd asked to see detailed proof of how I spent MY money and my budgeting before agreeing to lend me the cash.

.

Im sorry, but that comment just made me feel really old:eek:

That is exactly just what did happen when I got my first loan, for a car indecently.

I had to make an appointment with the bank manager, prove my earnings etc before he would give me the money.

Funnily enough I paid that back with no problem, I wonder why?:rolleyes:

Maybe its because it was lent responsibly in those days?

As for the legality of today’s lending, I think if you looked into it that would at best be questionable.

Back_From_Hell

OK lets put this into a real life scenario.

I had a client that had to declare himself bankrupt after falling ill and not being able to meet his commitments, but this was after five years of being harassed by his creditors, in a way im sure you’re all familiar.

His partner was financially tied to him yet from the time he went bankrupt to the time of his discharge her creditors increased her credit limits by 15K.

She wasn’t even working, but they never asked

Now the interesting bit is she had virtually no increase in the years before.

Knowing there financial situation it would have been so easy to use at least some of that potential credit in times of need, for example school uniforms for there kids as they where picked on for not wearing the latest designer label etc.

The bottom line is that family unit could not afford that credit, yet it was offered anyway. Yes it would have been wrong to use it, but it is also wrong to see there children suffer. No win situation for any parent.

The question I want an answer too is why the limits suddenly increased after her husband’s bankruptcy when they where static before? Not that I need one, the companies in question saw a soft target and went for it.

That in my eyes would make them to blame.

Bayblue

Back_From_Hell wrote: »

Im sorry, but that comment just made me feel really old:eek:

That is exactly just what did happen when I got my first loan, for a car indecently.

I had to make an appointment with the bank manager, prove my earnings etc before he would give me the money.

Funnily enough I paid that back with no problem, I wonder why?:rolleyes:

Maybe its because it was lent responsibly in those days?

As for the legality of today’s lending, I think if you looked into it that would at best be questionable.

I appreciate what you are saying but personally I disagree with banks (for instance) delving into my financial dealing and budgets before making a decision about lending to me. Unless I request budgeting advice All they have to do is make the standard checks to make sure that I am who I say I am and that I am a good risk to them which will obviously involve seeing payslips or contacting employers if necessary. Anything beyond that is up to me to work out.

As far as I'm concerned if I go to them requesting a loan so long as the terms and conditions are explained to then it's for ME to decide whether the repayments fit my personal budget and lifestyle, not them. I want to be treated like an adult, not a child learning to handle my pocket money.

The legality of contracts is a whole other issue, but again I think that the responsibility is on the consumer to make sure that they understand and agree with the terms and conditions before they sign any agreements. But like I say, that's just me..

x_raphael_xx

Yes.
I am the one who signed the form, regardless of how young and 'naive' I was. I was the one who spent the money.

The banks are out to make money, they don't care that their clients have only just emerged into the 'big wide world'. They don't care that you aren't able to repay the minimum fees!!

I have never sat there and read the page and a half of tiny writing that makes up the terms and conditions before signing...who has!! Most of it is in techno jargon anyway and doesn't make sense.
I only have myself to blame, which is why I am only relying on myself to pay it back.

I can only comment on my experience thou, so can't comment on people who are in desperate need, or not of sound mind etc etc.

I didn't need the money, I could have saved (and would have if I had this site 5 years ago) just wanted it there and then.

kel123_2

Let me start by saying how we got into Debt. 2.5 years ago my ltd company folded. It was not anybodies fault, just wrong time, wrong place, wrong product, it was basically at the start of the retail recession. Durring my time in business I learnt one thing about banks - it is not personal it is business. I do not see myself as getting around my debt or finding loopholes, I see it as using the law to my best advantage, the banks et al. are doing exactly the same. Out of all of you who are agreeing with the OP how many of you have claimed back PPi or charges or is that different because Martin says so (sorry Martin I am not knocking you but showing how morals are selective)

For many years in this country we have been conditioned to think in a surtain way, and that is; that morals are the main thing in life. This puts us at a disadvantage when dealing with banks et al. We are in rip it off Briton and we still believe that we are the best and have the best, because we are conditioned that way. Hands up, who has heard anyone say in authority "we are in a recession" all you hear is "Credit Crunch" and who knows what the difference is between the two? except that Credit Crunch sounds nothing like recession or the winter of discontent. Have we got better hospitals that our nabours - No been there seen them, How can we justify this countries mark up, here is my example I needed a base for my suround sound HTPC connected to my HDTV - the one I saw if purchased from within England would have cost £480 with 14 day delivery, so I bought it in Germany it was airfraighted and delivered in 3 days (ordered on a monday delivered on the Wednesday) and I paid £180. Another example PCWorld Direct phoned me and said that they were now the cheapest supplier of PC Goods anywhere so I tested them - LG HD/Blue ray combo player, they were very pleased to offer me one for £520, I can get one from America for 100$ + £20 shipping.

After reading what I have said how many of you can actully say you have not been ripped off and how many of you are still saying I had it so I will pay for it, It is my resposibility. If you are please get In touch because I am now selling knoted whips for self purification

x_raphael_xx

kel123 wrote: »

here is my example I needed a base for my suround sound HTPC connected to my HDTV - the one I saw if purchased from within England would have cost £480 with 14 day delivery, so I bought it in Germany it was airfraighted and delivered in 3 days (ordered on a monday delivered on the Wednesday) and I paid £180. Another example PCWorld Direct phoned me and said that they were now the cheapest supplier of PC Goods anywhere so I tested them - LG HD/Blue ray combo player, they were very pleased to offer me one for £520, I can get one from America for 100$ + £20 shipping.

Sorry? You needed a surround sound base at the cost of £180? While you are on a DMP for 56K!!!
My TV is a second hand one borrowed from a friend. If I had £180 spare it would go towards bills & groceries!

kel123 wrote: »

how many of you are still saying I had it so I will pay for it, It is my resposibility. If you are please get In touch because I am now selling knoted whips for self purification

*Puts hand up* I spent the money on my first place away from home, I am now older and wiser and would save for it now, but I can hardly say i was 'ripped off'. I'm not going to blame the bank for me applying for a credit card!!!

kel123_2

That was over 2.5 years ago. We haven't spent since then, except for nacesities.

OK you haven't been ripped off. Could you have got anythink you buy in another country cheaper than you could buy it for in this country and it was made in this country.

i'll start the list if you like

whisky
beer
Rover cars (when they were alive)
Cadbury's chocolate
Air fares (a return fare from Barc to birm is less expensive than return from birm to Barc


How do I know. My parents live in Spain NOT in a resort were the British inflate the prices further.