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Anjistar
Posts: 41 Forumite
Hello,
Sorry again. Here's the problem as succinctly as I can.
Car belonging to X was parked in a private road on day 1.
On day 3, it was ticketed at 6.30am, and only that time is on the NTK.
The Private Property signs were not seen on entry because;
1. There was no Private Property sign at the entrance to the (dead end) road.
2. It was dark, snowing heavily and visibility was poor.
4. From photos taken later
1) The first Private Property sign is placed where it was not visible from the driver's side of a small car once you were close enough to read it, being too high and facing away from the street light it was attached to.
2) It was situated several yards from the entrance to the road, by a row of garages. As there was a similar sign on the garages opposite, it could be assumed to apply to the the garages it was next to.
4) It was just before a speed bump sign, so the driver would have been concentrating on that.
4) There were no markings on the road indicating parking bays or residents' numbers.
The Notice left for the driver noted the date and time. On the front it said:
'!Attention! Documents Enclosed.
This is not a Parking Charge Notice.'
On the back it said:
'Serial Number xxxxxxxxx
Date xx/xx/xx
The Car Park operator has reason to believe that this vehicle is parked in contravention of the advertised Terms & Conditions. As a result a Parking Charge Notice may be issued to the Registered Keeper through the post.
You may view details of the recorded contravention, and take the appropriate action, by visiting the website address below using the serial number stated above along with your Vehicle Registration Mark.'
There were no Documents enclosed.
The notice on the windscreen as described above was placed on the 15/12, the PCN/NTK arrived on the 02/01, but dated 21/12. The keeper was not at the address until a week later so missed the option for early payment should that be the way it has to go.
Looking at POFA I thought para 8(2)(c) said there had to be a notice to driver complying with 7(2), which there clearly wasn't.
I am also confused by the requirements with regard to the periods where notices are given, e.g. paras 8(5) and 9(5)
I am trying very hard to make sense of the POFA but my small brain is curling up.
Please, poverty demands that I question this charge, so any advice would be most gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Sorry again. Here's the problem as succinctly as I can.
Car belonging to X was parked in a private road on day 1.
On day 3, it was ticketed at 6.30am, and only that time is on the NTK.
The Private Property signs were not seen on entry because;
1. There was no Private Property sign at the entrance to the (dead end) road.
2. It was dark, snowing heavily and visibility was poor.
4. From photos taken later
1) The first Private Property sign is placed where it was not visible from the driver's side of a small car once you were close enough to read it, being too high and facing away from the street light it was attached to.
2) It was situated several yards from the entrance to the road, by a row of garages. As there was a similar sign on the garages opposite, it could be assumed to apply to the the garages it was next to.
4) It was just before a speed bump sign, so the driver would have been concentrating on that.
4) There were no markings on the road indicating parking bays or residents' numbers.
The Notice left for the driver noted the date and time. On the front it said:
'!Attention! Documents Enclosed.
This is not a Parking Charge Notice.'
On the back it said:
'Serial Number xxxxxxxxx
Date xx/xx/xx
The Car Park operator has reason to believe that this vehicle is parked in contravention of the advertised Terms & Conditions. As a result a Parking Charge Notice may be issued to the Registered Keeper through the post.
You may view details of the recorded contravention, and take the appropriate action, by visiting the website address below using the serial number stated above along with your Vehicle Registration Mark.'
There were no Documents enclosed.
The notice on the windscreen as described above was placed on the 15/12, the PCN/NTK arrived on the 02/01, but dated 21/12. The keeper was not at the address until a week later so missed the option for early payment should that be the way it has to go.
Looking at POFA I thought para 8(2)(c) said there had to be a notice to driver complying with 7(2), which there clearly wasn't.
I am also confused by the requirements with regard to the periods where notices are given, e.g. paras 8(5) and 9(5)
I am trying very hard to make sense of the POFA but my small brain is curling up.
Please, poverty demands that I question this charge, so any advice would be most gratefully received.
Many thanks,
0
Comments
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Which parking company?0
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IamEmanresu wrote: »Which parking company?
VCS is the one.0 -
VCS use a complicated and confusing system where the myparkingcharge notice is placed on the windscreen and is not an NTD as defined in POFA2012
so this is why no documents are enclosed and why VCS will try to send their NTK to a keeper within 14 days as defined under POFA2012
if you are appealing (as a paper excercise only) then use the black text IPC template in the NEWBIES sticky thread
if you want to understand this scam , put myparkingcharge into the drop down forum search box , where it has come up dozens of times already
so just to be clear, the windscreen ticket is not an NTD under POFA2012 , so the NTK within 14 days applies
as an IPC member , use the black text appeal, but do not expect a cancellation , and the IAS is pointless for ADR0 -
So are you saying we should just pay it?VCS use a complicated and confusing system where the myparkingcharge notice is placed on the windscreen and is not an NTD as defined in POFA2012
so this is why no documents are enclosed and why VCS will try to send their NTK to a keeper within 14 days as defined under POFA2012
if you are appealing (as a paper excercise only) then use the black text IPC template in the NEWBIES sticky thread
if you want to understand this scam , put myparkingcharge into the drop down forum search box , where it has come up dozens of times already
so just to be clear, the windscreen ticket is not an NTD under POFA2012 , so the NTK within 14 days applies
as an IPC member , use the black text appeal, but do not expect a cancellation , and the IAS is pointless for ADR
Or wait and see if it goes to court? If the latter, do we have enough to win?0 -
no I am not saying it should be paid , we never tell people to pay
nobody can tell you if you will win in court, that is impossible to predict
you will get free advice here , but its rare to get legal advice for free about these matters , and no solicitor would tell you if you can win or not without seeing ALL of the evidence presented by both sides, and so far you have not produced yours and VCS will definitely not produce theirs until its set for a hearing in your local court
even then , that solicitor cannot predict what judge bingo will decide , hence why BEAVIS lost , 3 times , in 3 courts0 -
That's fine, I don't expect free legal advice at all!
It's just so confusing as so many details don't apply to us on the IPC template.
And the PCN/NTK arrived so long after the date on the Notice that the keeper doesn't have the option to pay a reduced amount, even if they wanted to take the easy way out and do so. It appears therre's no appeal against that.0 -
The reason things differ is that at least with a BPA member operator (blue appeal wording) you have a) a semblance of a chance of your initial appeal being accepted, and b) a reasonable chance of a POPLA appeal being accepted.
With an IPC member operator the chances of a) succeeding are slim, and b) is virtually non-existent.
0 -
if VCS failed POFA2012 then as keeper you are not liable for the charge ( only the driver is liable and so do not reveal their details , to anyone , especially not on here ) , hence all those questions asked in the black text template to VCS
it is for a parking company to prove their case against the person they invoiced, or they fail
so if the NTK did not arrive by day 15 , they failed POFA2012 and as keeper you dont have to do anything and the keeper is not liable under the law
but the initial appeal is just to show a judge that you did not ignore this invoice and tried to deal with it by engaging with the PPC
VCS have 6 years to try to enforce the charge using MCOL0 -
So, on another tack, if the keeper were to appeal on MPC, using the 'Charge notice failed to arrive' option and sent this:
The Charge Notice arrived leter than 14 days after the Issue date, thereby denying the keeper the option of a reduced payment.
Should the keeper decide to waive the submission of evidence that the signage was inadequate and pay the charge, it would only be the reduced amount as they were not given that option due to the late arrival of the PCN/NTK.
Should your client care to reinstate the lower amount, the keeper will consider it, in a gesture of goodwill and to avoid wasting their own, the client's and possibly the court's time.
Is that ridiculous or worth a shot?0 -
As the NtK arrived after 14 days after the incident, there is no keeper liability.
This means that as long as the driver isn't identified, the PPC will have great trouble getting any money from anyone.
It's ridiculous.Is that ridiculous or worth a shot?
Why on earth are you considering paying anything?
Send the black template appeal without change.0
This discussion has been closed.
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