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  • FIRST POST
    • shaleman
    • By shaleman 7th Jan 18, 9:46 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    shaleman
    ECP Country Park
    • #1
    • 7th Jan 18, 9:46 PM
    ECP Country Park 7th Jan 18 at 9:46 PM
    Hi, I received a parking charge notice from ECP for a Country Park in Kent, followed by a Notice to Keeper.
    I have read the newbie instructions and appealed to ECP using the template. The appeal was rejected and I now wish to submit my appeal to POPLA.
    Can I rely upon the following argument that I have seen quoted on another thread
    No right to claim under POFA
    As Euro Car Parks already knows, the car park at Country Park is owned and provided by Kent County Council, a "traffic authority" as defined under Paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 of POFA; this car park is therefore not "relevant land" under POFA. I am very concerned that ECP is claiming that it has the right under POFA to claim unpaid parking charges from the vehicle’s keeper, even though it should have been obvious to ECP that no such right exists.
Page 1
    • Edna Basher
    • By Edna Basher 7th Jan 18, 10:28 PM
    • 641 Posts
    • 1,669 Thanks
    Edna Basher
    • #2
    • 7th Jan 18, 10:28 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Jan 18, 10:28 PM
    Indeed - so long as your are "appealing" as the vehicle's keeper that's a very valid point to include in your submission to POPLA. However, you will need to spell this out in Fisher Price language because some POPLA assessors seem to struggle understanding the finer points of POFA.

    Paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 4 of POFA defines “traffic authority” as meaning each of the following:

    (a) the Secretary of State;
    (b) the Welsh Ministers;
    (c) Transport for London;
    (d) the Common Council of the City of London;
    (e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;
    (f) a parish or community council;
    (g) the Council of the Isles of Scilly.

    According to this definition, Kent County Council is therefore a "traffic authority".

    Paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 4 of POFA defines “parking place” as having the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 i.e. a place where vehicles, or vehicles of any class, may wait.

    Paragraph 3(1) of Schedule 4 of POFA states that in this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than:

    (a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
    (b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
    (c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

    The parking places at [xxxxxx] Country Park, having been provided by Kent County Council (a "traffic authority" as defined under Schedule 4) are therefore not relevant land by virtue of Paragraph 3 (1) (b) of Schedule 4.

    You'll also need to provide some proof that the Country Park is actually owned by the council. A screenshot from the council's website should do.

    https://www.kent.gov.uk/leisure-and-community/kent-country-parks/find-a-kent-country-park

    Of course, should the "appeal" progress as far as ECP providing you with an evidence pack, the cat will be out of the bag as soon as they provide details of any authorisation from the landowner (i.e. Kent County Council).

    Edit: you could also include a screenshot from this page on KCC's website where the council states that ECP are responsible for issuing parking penalty charges (is that so, KCC???).

    https://www.kent.gov.uk/leisure-and-community/kent-country-parks/season-tickets#tab-4
    Last edited by Edna Basher; 07-01-2018 at 10:58 PM.
    • shaleman
    • By shaleman 7th Jan 18, 11:03 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaleman
    • #3
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:03 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:03 PM
    Hi, thanks for the quick reply.

    The Country Park is owned by Kent County Council and I will be appealing as the vehicle's keeper.

    In my appeal to POPLA should I still include additional arguments about signage, landowner authority, keeper liability?

    Thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jan 18, 11:04 PM
    • 52,881 Posts
    • 66,403 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:04 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:04 PM
    Yes, always.

    The beauty of a loooong POPLA appeal is, it can win just because it's so long that many PPCs won't waste man hours contesting it. We've seen it so often, we know it is true that the 'kitchen sink' POPLA appeal does work in itself.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • shaleman
    • By shaleman 7th Jan 18, 11:48 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaleman
    • #5
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:48 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:48 PM
    Thank you, will let you know how the appeal goes.
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