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  • FIRST POST
    • monkeychops
    • By monkeychops 20th Nov 17, 10:02 AM
    • 170Posts
    • 294Thanks
    monkeychops
    Neighbours' dog
    • #1
    • 20th Nov 17, 10:02 AM
    Neighbours' dog 20th Nov 17 at 10:02 AM
    Me and OH moved in May. Next door neighbour has a shih Tzu. Cute little dog, bit yappy but doesn't bother us.

    We realised quickly that if the neighbours are there (male, female and 3 sons youngest about 12) the dog is tied up outside. When they go out the dog is indoors.

    Most days the dog was put outside at around 8am and not taken in until 10pm, sometimes later. Although not thinking this was great we just thought well the weather is warm so ok.

    Anyway because of a close family member's illness we have been away from our house until 2 weeks ago. Of course the weather has turned much colder. The dog is still outside for hours on end.

    He has food and water and they leave the shed door open for him to go inside but it is hardly going to be any warmer in there is it? He is tied on a lead and then a piece of rope. It is not very long at all.

    So he can't run around the garden. The garden is pretty big and very secure so he wouldn't escape. Most days he has been outside from 8am to around 8pm. The sons play in the garden but not with the dog. I have seen them walk past the dog and totally ignore him. The adults do the same. I have not heard them even speak to the dog.

    When they go out they pick the dog up and put him inside. So straight off the rope and picked up. I don't know but I would guess that he is in a crate when indoors.

    He seems to get no walks, no interaction etc. This weekend he was in the garden from 8am until 8pm. It was cold and it rained. I think he went into the shed when it rained. Sunday they were out from 9am until 2pm so the dog was indoors. Literally the second they got home I saw the woman carrying the dog and on the rope he went. He was then outside until 7pm.

    I feel so sorry for him. What a horrid sad life he has. No walking, no playing, no interaction that I can see or hear (walls are pretty thin so would probably hear if it sounded like they were playing with him in evening).

    Now the problem. Do I report to RSPCA knowing they will probably do nothing as dog has food, water and shelter. If they do come out the neighbours will be pretty sure it was us that reported so on a bad footing before even really getting to know them. We have spoken to the male who seems ok but not the woman.

    I am becoming obsessed with looking into their garden at him looking so sad and dejected. I speak to him through the hedge. We have 2 dogs and we are always walking them, playing with them, talking to them etc.

    I am just getting more and more upset about the poor thing. Any ideas what I should do?
Page 2
    • elliesmemory1
    • By elliesmemory1 28th Dec 17, 11:49 AM
    • 1,195 Posts
    • 687 Thanks
    elliesmemory1
    You should report this asap. In freezing temperatures the dog could die.
    The rspca can and should do something about this.
    The owners are not following the five freedoms which make up the animal welfare act.
    Please report this today.
    • avogadro
    • By avogadro 28th Dec 17, 12:41 PM
    • 3,831 Posts
    • 6,700 Thanks
    avogadro
    You say the dog is tied up outside when the owners are not in the house. That to me suggests they don't want the dog to roam about indoors when they are not there and get into things it shouldn't.

    They may regard you as a busybody if you're watching your neighbours garden to the extent that you seem to be, and given their apparent coyness about their living situation they would not want any authorities to come knocking on their doorstep.

    A difficult one. It's like when someone is bringing up their child in a way that you don't approve of and that may be detrimental to the child, but which doesn't count as abuse per se.
    • shazzablue
    • By shazzablue 2nd Jan 18, 8:25 AM
    • 109 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    shazzablue
    Hi,can I ask the condition of the dog?,my shitzu needs groomed every 8 weeks,she matts if left longer and this can be painful,shitzus don't cast.i would have no hesitation in reporting this poor souls miserable existence.
    • monkeychops
    • By monkeychops 4th Jan 18, 11:21 AM
    • 170 Posts
    • 294 Thanks
    monkeychops
    You should report this asap. In freezing temperatures the dog could die.
    The rspca can and should do something about this.
    The owners are not following the five freedoms which make up the animal welfare act.
    Please report this today.
    Originally posted by elliesmemory1
    I have phoned the RSPCA and they were not really interested. Said the dog has food and water and shelter so not being mistreated!


    You say the dog is tied up outside when the owners are not in the house. That to me suggests they don't want the dog to roam about indoors when they are not there and get into things it shouldn't.

    They may regard you as a busybody if you're watching your neighbours garden to the extent that you seem to be, and given their apparent coyness about their living situation they would not want any authorities to come knocking on their doorstep.

    A difficult one. It's like when someone is bringing up their child in a way that you don't approve of and that may be detrimental to the child, but which doesn't count as abuse per se.
    Originally posted by avogadro

    No, the dog is tied up outside when the family are home. When they go out they put him inside. I don't know for sure but I should imagine he is crated as it seems unlikely they allow him to be free indoors.

    As I said, he doesn't get company as when the family are home he is outside on his own and then inside on his own when they go out. All the family just seem to ignore him. Not heard one of them ever speak to him.

    I can see their garden clearly from upstairs and they can't see me looking unless they were outside and looking up.


    Hi,can I ask the condition of the dog?,my shitzu needs groomed every 8 weeks,she matts if left longer and this can be painful,shitzus don't cast.i would have no hesitation in reporting this poor souls miserable existence.
    Originally posted by shazzablue

    I have not seen him close to but he looks ok.

    After speaking to the RSPCA and getting nowhere I don't now what to do now. I tried to speak to the woman next door (just a general "hello I'm (name)" and she wasn't interested. Just literally grunted at me and walked away.

    I don't really want to knock on her door and confront her over the dog and I somehow doubt she would do anything anyway.

    I have spoken to a few people locally (none of them know exactly where I live) and one or two have said they would be willing to come and snatch the dog and either keep him or take him to a rescue.

    I don't think this would be possible though even if I thought it a good idea as the dog starts barking the minute he sees or hears someone. He is tied up fairly close to the house and the garden is quite long so it is likely the neighbour would be out before someone could snatch him.

    I don't know what to do now. I know they rent their house but don't know who from (I thought of writing to the landlord but not sure they would be interested).
    • shazzablue
    • By shazzablue 4th Jan 18, 11:32 AM
    • 109 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    shazzablue
    horrid situation to be in,if they are not walking him or having him groomed his nails will also be long and could become painful,why do people persist in holding onto pets they don't care about...do any other neighbours comment on him?.
    • svain
    • By svain 4th Jan 18, 12:40 PM
    • 273 Posts
    • 474 Thanks
    svain
    So .... the dog looks ok, is being fed & watered, has shelter, is taken inside on occasions .... so there is an element of care going on. im not so keen on the idea of it being outside but the reality is its not neglect and its really none of your business.

    Confront your neighbours over this at your peril. Getting involved can cause more harm than good, not only your relationship with the neighbours themselves but also the dog .... If you force them to take the dog inside who knows how it will be treated behind closed doors ... It could be put in a crate all day, every day ... or worse. At least outside you can keep a bit of eye on it.
    • monkeychops
    • By monkeychops 4th Jan 18, 2:06 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 294 Thanks
    monkeychops
    So .... the dog looks ok, is being fed & watered, has shelter, is taken inside on occasions .... so there is an element of care going on. im not so keen on the idea of it being outside but the reality is its not neglect and its really none of your business.

    Confront your neighbours over this at your peril. Getting involved can cause more harm than good, not only your relationship with the neighbours themselves but also the dog .... If you force them to take the dog inside who knows how it will be treated behind closed doors ... It could be put in a crate all day, every day ... or worse. At least outside you can keep a bit of eye on it.
    Originally posted by svain
    Yes the dog is fed and has a bowl of water. His shelter is a shed so not much warmer than being outside and he is hardly a breed to live outside.

    He has no exercise, is never walked as far as I can see. He is tied on a short lead tied to a piece of string. He can only walk a small distance, cannot really run. The garden is large and, I think, pretty secure, but he never has the run of it.

    He has no company. He is outside on his own when his family are in. The minute they go out he gets put inside (probably crated). He does sleep inside over night (probably crated) but is taken in fairly late at night and shoved outside at about 8am. I have never once heard him being spoken to even when being picked up to be taken inside.

    None of them, even the children, ever play with him in the garden. They may play with him indoors although I doubt it. The walls are pretty thin and I can hear them talking, their tv etc and don't hear anything which sounds like playing with the dog. I am sure they can hear me and OH talking to and playing with our dogs all the time.

    I feel it is neglect and many people agree with me. I also feel, as an animal lover, that it is my business. No dog should just exist with no exercise, play etc
    • svain
    • By svain 4th Jan 18, 2:37 PM
    • 273 Posts
    • 474 Thanks
    svain
    Yes the dog is fed and has a bowl of water. His shelter is a shed so not much warmer than being outside and he is hardly a breed to live outside.

    He has no exercise, is never walked as far as I can see. He is tied on a short lead tied to a piece of string. He can only walk a small distance, cannot really run. The garden is large and, I think, pretty secure, but he never has the run of it.

    He has no company. He is outside on his own when his family are in. The minute they go out he gets put inside (probably crated). He does sleep inside over night (probably crated) but is taken in fairly late at night and shoved outside at about 8am. I have never once heard him being spoken to even when being picked up to be taken inside.

    None of them, even the children, ever play with him in the garden. They may play with him indoors although I doubt it. The walls are pretty thin and I can hear them talking, their tv etc and don't hear anything which sounds like playing with the dog. I am sure they can hear me and OH talking to and playing with our dogs all the time.

    I feel it is neglect and many people agree with me. I also feel, as an animal lover, that it is my business. No dog should just exist with no exercise, play etc
    Originally posted by monkeychops
    I think you will find in the eyes of the law it is not neglect .... and by interfering you risk making the dogs life worse. Be very careful how you approach this is.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 4th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    • 2,187 Posts
    • 6,034 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Yes the dog is fed and has a bowl of water. His shelter is a shed so not much warmer than being outside and he is hardly a breed to live outside.

    He has no exercise, is never walked as far as I can see. He is tied on a short lead tied to a piece of string. He can only walk a small distance, cannot really run. The garden is large and, I think, pretty secure, but he never has the run of it.

    He has no company. He is outside on his own when his family are in. The minute they go out he gets put inside (probably crated). He does sleep inside over night (probably crated) but is taken in fairly late at night and shoved outside at about 8am. I have never once heard him being spoken to even when being picked up to be taken inside.

    None of them, even the children, ever play with him in the garden. They may play with him indoors although I doubt it. The walls are pretty thin and I can hear them talking, their tv etc and don't hear anything which sounds like playing with the dog. I am sure they can hear me and OH talking to and playing with our dogs all the time.

    I feel it is neglect and many people agree with me. I also feel, as an animal lover, that it is my business. No dog should just exist with no exercise, play etc
    Originally posted by monkeychops

    Its certainly not the sort of standard I think is acceptable in caring for an animal, but the law only calls for adequate, not good. It doesn't sound like they are breaking the law here, which means there isn't a lot that can be done.

    Perhaps you could get involved with charities and groups campaigning for a change in the law?
    • monkeychops
    • By monkeychops 4th Jan 18, 3:09 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 294 Thanks
    monkeychops
    I think you will find in the eyes of the law it is not neglect .... and by interfering you risk making the dogs life worse. Be very careful how you approach this is.
    Originally posted by svain
    May not be neglect in the eyes of the law but certainly is neglect.

    Of course I will be careful how I handle it. The difficulty is because it is my next door neighbour. If not I would certainly have spoken to them about it before now as would my OH. We have intervened in the past over neglected animals

    I cannot stand animal cruelty and this poor little boy has a pretty sad life. I guess if they started beating him his life would be worse but other than that I fail to see how it could be worse.

    Looking at another poster's list of the RSPCA's five freedoms I would say the neighbours are failing on 4 and 5:

    Freedom to express normal behaviour: by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal’s own kind.

    Freedom from fear and distress: by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering.


    He has very little space because of the fact he is tied up. He has no company either of his own kind or human. He has such a sad boring life I would be surprised if he is not suffering mentally.

    I don't personally believe dogs should be kept outside but certainly not a Shih Tzu. He should be warm indoors, being played with and stroked.
    Last edited by monkeychops; 04-01-2018 at 3:15 PM.
    • Beans27
    • By Beans27 4th Jan 18, 3:45 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    Beans27
    Poor little dog monkeychops, this makes my heart hurt. I really hope one of your neighbours does manage to pinch him out the garden and give him a lovely home.
    • Edinburgh Pooch
    • By Edinburgh Pooch 4th Jan 18, 4:50 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Edinburgh Pooch
    Please call someone about this. The shihtzu is a companion dog which is definately not meant to be kept outside. In fact they recommend it is not left on it's own for long as they are designed to be companions to their owners and get anxious and depressed if left alone for long periods. This alone is cruelty. I know this because I own a shihtzu and he follows me round the house even to the bathroom. They are also not meant to be left in cold or hot weather as they are quite small, fragile little creatures. Please call someone. You can do it without leaving your name. If they don't do anything well at least you have tried. From someone who owns one of these dogs this is definately not right. PLEASE CALL. Thank you
    • Froglet
    • By Froglet 4th Jan 18, 5:17 PM
    • 2,520 Posts
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    Froglet
    May not be neglect in the eyes of the law but certainly is neglect.

    Of course I will be careful how I handle it. The difficulty is because it is my next door neighbour. If not I would certainly have spoken to them about it before now as would my OH. We have intervened in the past over neglected animals

    I cannot stand animal cruelty and this poor little boy has a pretty sad life. I guess if they started beating him his life would be worse but other than that I fail to see how it could be worse.

    Looking at another poster's list of the RSPCA's five freedoms I would say the neighbours are failing on 4 and 5:

    Freedom to express normal behaviour: by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animalís own kind.

    Freedom from fear and distress: by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering.


    He has very little space because of the fact he is tied up. He has no company either of his own kind or human. He has such a sad boring life I would be surprised if he is not suffering mentally.

    I don't personally believe dogs should be kept outside but certainly not a Shih Tzu. He should be warm indoors, being played with and stroked.
    Originally posted by monkeychops
    poor little soul.It is very much neglect.It makes me so angry,and worse when the RSPCA won't even come out and assess the situation.Surely some stern words about the dogs poor quality of an existence might make a difference.What on earth did they get a dog for in the first place? Is there any way you could exaggerate it's state,ie in very cold weather it is looking sick,or the rope is wrapped around it's legs? And I know I will be shot down in flames for saying that but I don't care.

    Thank you for caring,it would upset me too every day seeing it like this.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 4th Jan 18, 8:31 PM
    • 15,679 Posts
    • 39,518 Thanks
    elsien
    Please call someone about this. The shihtzu is a companion dog which is definately not meant to be kept outside. In fact they recommend it is not left on it's own for long as they are designed to be companions to their owners and get anxious and depressed if left alone for long periods. This alone is cruelty. I know this because I own a shihtzu and he follows me round the house even to the bathroom. They are also not meant to be left in cold or hot weather as they are quite small, fragile little creatures. Please call someone. You can do it without leaving your name. If they don't do anything well at least you have tried. From someone who owns one of these dogs this is definately not right. PLEASE CALL. Thank you
    Originally posted by Edinburgh Pooch
    Have you actually read the thread and the OPs replies at all? They have tried to report and got nowhere.

    OP - other than monitoring and keeping on to the RSPCA if things change you seem
    to be a bit stuck. My only other thoughts are the dog warden, or the council if the barking is creating a noise nuisance. Very sad.
    Last edited by elsien; 04-01-2018 at 8:33 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • shazzablue
    • By shazzablue 5th Jan 18, 8:17 AM
    • 109 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    shazzablue
    Hi monkeychops I looked up the email of shih Tzu rescue,i wonder if they could give some advice?..vice-chairperson@southernshihtzurescue.org.uk the website also has a contact fone number...joyce ellis.01795474416.you are doing the right thing,hope someone can help.
    Last edited by shazzablue; 05-01-2018 at 8:18 AM. Reason: typo
    • Froglet
    • By Froglet 5th Jan 18, 11:54 AM
    • 2,520 Posts
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    Froglet
    Good idea to contact the rescue shazzablue.That poor dog needs a better life,that's for sure.
    • shazzablue
    • By shazzablue 5th Jan 18, 12:11 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    shazzablue
    my own wee shihtzu is 13 blind and enjoys a good quality of life,i could not imagine her enduring what this little dog is going through,they are companion dogs and the isolation that little dog will be feeling is heartbreaking,really hope something can be done.
    • monkeychops
    • By monkeychops 5th Jan 18, 2:58 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 294 Thanks
    monkeychops
    Please call someone about this. The shihtzu is a companion dog which is definately not meant to be kept outside. In fact they recommend it is not left on it's own for long as they are designed to be companions to their owners and get anxious and depressed if left alone for long periods. This alone is cruelty. I know this because I own a shihtzu and he follows me round the house even to the bathroom. They are also not meant to be left in cold or hot weather as they are quite small, fragile little creatures. Please call someone. You can do it without leaving your name. If they don't do anything well at least you have tried. From someone who owns one of these dogs this is definately not right. PLEASE CALL. Thank you
    Originally posted by Edinburgh Pooch
    I have phoned the RSPCA twice now and they are not interested. I gave them my name and address because they said they won't act on anonymous reports but it made no difference.

    I also rang the Dog Warden yesterday who said he only deals with strays. He could not give me any suggestions as to what I can do.


    poor little soul.It is very much neglect.It makes me so angry,and worse when the RSPCA won't even come out and assess the situation.Surely some stern words about the dogs poor quality of an existence might make a difference.What on earth did they get a dog for in the first place? Is there any way you could exaggerate it's state,ie in very cold weather it is looking sick,or the rope is wrapped around it's legs? And I know I will be shot down in flames for saying that but I don't care.

    Thank you for caring,it would upset me too every day seeing it like this.
    Originally posted by Froglet
    I might try again and say the dog looks ill or that it is crying pitifully but I honestly don't think they will take any notice.


    Hi monkeychops I looked up the email of shih Tzu rescue,i wonder if they could give some advice?..vice-chairperson@southernshihtzurescue.org.uk the website also has a contact fone number...joyce ellis.01795474416.you are doing the right thing,hope someone can help.
    Originally posted by shazzablue
    Thank you for this. I will get on to them and see if they can be of any help.

    I am getting more and more upset about the dog. I think they are being very cruel and I look at my 2 dogs and the life me and OH give them and just cry for the poor thing.

    If they left him tied up when they went out I think I would go and kidnap him myself or I know a couple of people that definitely would. There is no way though to get close to him without them being aware.

    It doesn't seem possible to go down the friendly chat route as the woman is very unfriendly and doesn't want to talk at all. The guy talks a little bit but won't be drawn on the dog except to say it is her dog and she makes the decisions about him.

    Because we only moved last year we don't know if she had only recently got him when we moved in or whether he has already had to endure one or more winter.

    We haven't really spoken to many neighbours and don't really want to ask lots of questions about the dog. None of them mention him and if something is done about him I don't really want her to think it is me although I guess that will be her first suspicion.

    I don't intend giving up even though I am getting nowhere. My heart and my conscience won't let me
    • Froglet
    • By Froglet 5th Jan 18, 3:19 PM
    • 2,520 Posts
    • 3,017 Thanks
    Froglet
    Your posts,and that poor dogs existence has really upset me so I can only imagine what you must be going through.How can the RSPCA even begin to think it is acceptable to treat him like this.What do they gain out of having him ? He is obviously far too much bother.I bet her bloody pot plants get better treatment
    Thank you so much for keeping trying.Maybe she will forget to bring him in one day when she goes out.Then you can grab him.Please keep us updated on your progress.
    • marlot
    • By marlot 5th Jan 18, 10:12 PM
    • 3,216 Posts
    • 2,340 Thanks
    marlot
    ...
    I have spoken to a few people locally (none of them know exactly where I live) and one or two have said they would be willing to come and snatch the dog and either keep him or take him to a rescue.
    ...
    Originally posted by monkeychops
    Unfortunately, the law would define that as theft. If it came to court you might get a conditional discharge. Or you might not.
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