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  • FIRST POST
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 10:28 AM
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    pappa golf
    Fight the French
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:28 AM
    Fight the French 16th Jul 17 at 10:28 AM
    this thread now edited to remove original (stupid) fund crowding request to fund payment of fines , therefore most of the replies now make no sense !



    EDIT : a further crowd funding page has now been set up , this time to raise funds for an appeal

    https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/nhsvindigo

    I agree and will be assisting in this
    Last edited by pappa golf; 16-07-2017 at 6:48 PM.
Page 1
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 16th Jul 17, 10:53 AM
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    trisontana
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:53 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:53 AM
    What have the politicians (both national and local) saying about this? And the media?
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 16th Jul 17, 10:57 AM
    • 113 Posts
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    Ryandavis1959
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:57 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:57 AM
    Thanks for the link I don't have much money but I have contributed a fiver. Something about this whole case feels "off" like we have not been told the full story. Surely the Lay Rep's indemnity insurance should cover the £12000 costs? Who was the Lay Rep and how has such a huge amount of costs been levied in a County Court hearing? It's more in line with what you would expect under Scots law as opposed to E & W.
    Last edited by Ryandavis1959; 16-07-2017 at 11:12 AM.
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 16th Jul 17, 10:58 AM
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    Ryandavis1959
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:58 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 10:58 AM
    What have the politicians (both national and local) saying about this? And the media?
    Originally posted by trisontana
    I have sent the link on twitter to Murdo Fraser.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 16th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
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    Half_way
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    What have the politicians (both national and local) saying about this? And the media?
    Originally posted by trisontana

    Nothing - yet, its all gone pretty much under the radar.
    even the discussion about the case on here was buried in another thread about court cases tailing off.

    Im ion agreement with the above, and other comments any funding/publicity should be aimed at a further appeal/challenge and raising the profile of this case.
    PPCs, in particular Indigo will soon start going on about this case, and the more publicity it gets the better, from both sides as the PPC/NHS trust will not come out of it looking good.
    Aggressively going after low paid, over worked nurses who do the job as a vocation to look after and care for us/the sick/needy etc, plus ontop of that there is a shortage of nurses and general staff in the NHS, this wont encourage recruitment.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Jul 17, 12:03 PM
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    Guys Dad
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:03 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:03 PM
    It's all very well taking the moral stance about fighting them on the beaches etc, but the fact is, at present, the nurses face having to pay for their court costs. Hence the appeal.

    So, would it be sensible to crowd fund to raise money to pay a professional legal team to take it further, thereby leaving them with more legal costs to be added to the original lot if they don't win?

    Great if you are not the ones facing the financial penalty.

    Brutally, they agreed a strategy to defend the claims against them and lost in court. The engaged unpaid lay reps. They could have crowd funded to get a legal team instead. The other side won their case and that meant that the charges stood and the claimants' legal team get their costs.

    There comes a time when the legal action has to stop and the begging bowl comes out to help pay the costs so far. It is then up to people if they want to contribute or not.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Jul 17, 12:10 PM
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    beamerguy
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:10 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:10 PM
    The crux of the problem appears to be The University Hospital of Wales
    who seemed to support Indigo.

    Where is the sense in issuing 10,000 permits when there are
    only 1000 spaces ??? The hospital must have realised that this
    alone would cause huge problems

    The management of this hospital should be sent back to school
    and be shown the logistics

    Who would blame a strike at this hospital and/or staff leaving

    The Judge, what can one say ????
    Maybe Jeremy Hunt should be talking to David Lidington MP,
    the Lord High Chancellor Secretary of State, Ministry of Justice
    when this explodes as it will

    Crowd funding for helping people pay will not expose the scam
    of this hospital.

    All this at a time when the NHS are crying out for staff
    Central government will be stupid to ignore this
    Last edited by beamerguy; 16-07-2017 at 12:19 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

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    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 12:12 PM
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    pappa golf
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:12 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:12 PM
    It's all very well taking the moral stance about fighting them on the beaches etc, but the fact is, at present, the nurses face having to pay for their court costs. Hence the appeal.

    So, would it be sensible to crowd fund to raise money to pay a professional legal team to take it further, thereby leaving them with more legal costs to be added to the original lot if they don't win?

    Great if you are not the ones facing the financial penalty.

    Brutally, they agreed a strategy to defend the claims against them and lost in court. The engaged unpaid lay reps. They could have crowd funded to get a legal team instead. The other side won their case and that meant that the charges stood and the claimants' legal team get their costs.

    There comes a time when the legal action has to stop and the begging bowl comes out to help pay the costs so far. It is then up to people if they want to contribute or not.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    umm if an appeal is started , that will put any payments on hold untill appeal is done , te money indigo get in those (inflated) fines will simply be split between funbding further court cases and being sent to french shareholders

    could you imagine what would happen in france if indigo tried it over there?

    the croud funding , should be for monies to appeal against indigo , not to pay up at this point
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Jul 17, 12:35 PM
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    Guys Dad
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:35 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:35 PM
    umm if an appeal is started , that will put any payments on hold untill appeal is done , te money indigo get in those (inflated) fines will simply be split between funbding further court cases and being sent to french shareholders

    could you imagine what would happen in france if indigo tried it over there?

    the croud funding , should be for monies to appeal against indigo , not to pay up at this point
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    They may be on hold, but there will be appeal costs for using a legal team to appeal. If the appeal was lost, then the appeal costs plus the original award would be due. And that would be even more crowd funding required.

    The point is that both you, Beamerguy and Halfway are anti-PPC warriors and I hope you will accept that I am as well. Our aims are beyond this particular case.

    But these nurses are seeking money to pay their court costs and parking charges. That's a different issue from fighting "the system".

    But the system needs fighting but any pro-bono legal team willing to take this on is only a part solution . Ulike Beavis where there was pro-bone for Barry, the PPC agreed not to seek costs as they wanted clarification on GPEOL, I can't see this PPC waiving their appeal costs, given their current experience with some of the cases in this action.

    The crowd funding appeal, unfortunately, only covers these cases. I believe that there are a reported 100,000 other cases in the wings! The hospital needs to get a grip here and the staff union needs to get into action.
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 16th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
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    trisontana
    Aggressively going after low paid, over worked nurses who do the job as a vocation to look after and care for us/the sick/needy etc, plus ontop of that there is a shortage of nurses and general staff in the NHS, this wont encourage recruitment.
    Originally posted by Half_way
    You've got it all wrong folks. According to Phil (spreadsheet) Hammond, public sector workers are "overpaid" if you take into account their pensions. Of course how many of these overworked staff will live to enjoy these benefits is another question.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Jul 17, 12:51 PM
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    beamerguy
    You've got it all wrong folks. According to Phil (spreadsheet) Hammond, public sector workers are "overpaid" if you take into account their pensions. Of course how many of these overworked staff will live to enjoy these benefits is another question.
    Originally posted by trisontana
    Don't forget the foodbanks ?
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    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Jul 17, 1:06 PM
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    beamerguy
    "The point is that both you, Beamerguy and Halfway are anti-PPC warriors and I hope you will accept that I am as well. Our aims are beyond this particular case."

    We are all anti scam which Mrs May's government allows

    The fact is that this is a HUGE VOTE LOSER for Mrs May amongst
    her many vote losing tactics
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 16th Jul 17, 1:24 PM
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    Ryandavis1959
    What have the politicians (both national and local) saying about this? And the media?
    Originally posted by trisontana
    "The point is that both you, Beamerguy and Halfway are anti-PPC warriors and I hope you will accept that I am as well. Our aims are beyond this particular case."

    We are all anti scam which Mrs May's government allows

    The fact is that this is a HUGE VOTE LOSER for Mrs May amongst
    her many vote losing tactics
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    I doubt it is a vote loser im afraid, as no political party cared about it during the election. Only the Tories had a line about it in their manifesto. Even Corbyn didn't bother and he would seem the natural anti-PPF leader.

    The reality is that this has been going on for over a decade and the politicians, media and I'm afraid to say the general public do not seem to care! If you ever read what's on the Daily Mail comments about parking you'd think that the motorist had deserved getting the ticket most of the time!
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 1:36 PM
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    pappa golf
    There are currently 100,000 unpaid tickets from hospital staff worth £12,000,000

    I would not like to be a hospital administrator on Monday morning , I foresee the brown stuff contacting the rotating thing , and staff problems .

    the hospital board are in many ways responsable for this , on the first count , by leasing the car park to this company , and secondly by issuing far to many permits

    fortunatly this contract expires (I think) next year , but expect a new batch from Ninewells Hospital up in bonny scotland spurned on thy the funding from wales (30 yr contract)

    one thing that defies me , 1300 spaces 9000+ permits but yet indigo made a profit of £2.8 million in 2016 , I thought the permits were bought from the hospital?
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 16th Jul 17, 1:44 PM
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    Ryandavis1959
    There are currently 100,000 unpaid tickets from hospital staff worth £12,000,000

    I would not like to be a hospital administrator on Monday morning , I foresee the brown stuff contacting the rotating thing , and staff problems .

    the hospital board are in many ways responsable for this , on the first count , by leasing the car park to this company , and secondly by issuing far to many permits

    fortunatly this contract expires (I think) next year , but expect a new batch from Ninewells Hospital up in bonny scotland spurned on thy the funding from wales (30 yr contract)

    one thing that defies me , 1300 spaces 9000+ permits but yet indigo made a profit of £2.8 million in 2016 , I thought the permits were bought from the hospital?
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    I imagine the majority of their revenue is from pay and display machine income, not from enforcement (especially as a parking charge there is £20.)
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Jul 17, 1:56 PM
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    beamerguy
    I doubt it is a vote loser im afraid, as no political party cared about it during the election. Only the Tories had a line about it in their manifesto. Even Corbyn didn't bother and he would seem the natural anti-PPF leader.
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    Don't be misled .... why do you think May lost voters ??
    Not Brexit but matters that were important to people

    I doubt that to this day, May has any idea
    Her problem is not knowing what voters will do next
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 3:18 PM
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    pappa golf
    I imagine the majority of their revenue is from pay and display machine income, not from enforcement (especially as a parking charge there is £20.)
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    but how can they offer a pay and display on a 1300 place car park , when they have already sold (and took money for) 9000+ permits
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 16th Jul 17, 4:36 PM
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    Ryandavis1959
    but how can they offer a pay and display on a 1300 place car park , when they have already sold (and took money for) 9000+ permits
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Most hospitals have staff areas for permits and then pay and display areas for patients and staff who can't get in the permit area. I've got no idea why they thought a 9/1 permits to space ratio was a good idea, but then again I know nothing about running a car park!

    Who was the Lay rep and do they have indemnity insurance to cover the costs?
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Jul 17, 6:12 PM
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    Guys Dad
    If you ever read what's on the Daily Mail comments about parking you'd think that the motorist had deserved getting the ticket most of the time!
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. The Daily Mail, whatever you think of it, consistently highlights parking cases and invariably is on the side of the motorist. Just look back through this forum.

    The real problem at many older hospitals is that simply there is not sufficient parking space. Any hospital in a major town or city will, inevitably, have expanded with more building and there is just not sufficient space on their premises to encompass all of the motor cars that want to use the facilities, either as staff, visitors or patients. And often all the land around is already built on by housing or commercial premises.

    Now how you magic additional space is beyond me. Out of town new hospitals could be the solution, but at what price. They could be more creative with turning every bit of land in existing hospitals into car parking - more multi storeys etc.

    Certainly PPCs are not the answer - at least not the way things currently work.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 6:30 PM
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    pappa golf
    pappa golf that's the wrong link, please urgently change it to the one supplied by Sue Prior of the TafEly Group, which is the fighting fund to APPEAL.

    She's given the right link twice in the comments under the Blog.

    We do not want people paying to pay this disgrace, but to fund a proper appeal.

    I won't comment on the 'sanitised version' blogged, which is not the 'actual' version written by and according to Barry Beavis.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I have now ADDED the link to the appeal crowsd funding , this I TOTALLY agree with , unlike the request to fund fine payment
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