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  • FIRST POST
    • Zita_Z
    • By Zita_Z 24th May 17, 12:10 AM
    • 15Posts
    • 21Thanks
    Zita_Z
    Residential parking in allocated bay - Case closed w/ court report
    • #1
    • 24th May 17, 12:10 AM
    Residential parking in allocated bay - Case closed w/ court report 24th May 17 at 12:10 AM
    Hi All,

    I have spent hours reading up on the topic as I have just been served by Parking & Property Management. Please can someone help me figure out if I have a case?

    I live in an apartment complex with a multi-storey carpark. Residents are allocated parking spaces and given a sticker (with a disproportionately small sticky surface) that they need to display at all times. My parking space is on the 7th floor of the complex, which means there are a lot of centrifugal and centripetal forces at play when I am driving up/down.

    On the day of the incident, I was in a rush to get to a doctorís appointment (I had a very bad cold with a fever, I donít know if this could help), and after I parked my car (my surgery is within walking distance), I forgot to check if my sticker was still in place. The next morning I found the PCN on my dashboard for not displaying the ticket properly. It had fallen to the floor of the passenger side, but it was still visible if someone looked in through the window (can provide photos timestamped from the same morning).

    So between 6 PM the night before and 8 AM next morning they managed to spot my missing sticker. The original fine would have been 60 pounds (100 if paid later than 28 days), now it is 237 pounds.

    I am wondering if you can help determine whether I have a chance to dispute this ticket. I think I have a few arguments that could help:
    - Primacy of contract: my lease states that I have an allocated parking spot for one car (so Jopson ruling may apply). The fact that they have a permit scheme is secondary.
    - Legality of contract: as this is a private apartment complex, they have a monopoly over parking spaces. I do not have the choice of not parking there as that is my only option (as opposed to a shopís car park). The property management company may have signed a contract with these people, but I did not. They have signs displayed in the car park, but I have no say in what is in the terms as they were drafted in advance. These are unfair terms.
    - Circumstances: the fact that I was physically unwell at the time (can provide doctorís appointment proof), and that the permit simply fell off my dashboard due to circling around up to floor 7.
    - There was no loss of income. I had the right to park my car in that spot, it was allocated to me, and it could not have been rented to anyone in that timeframe. I do pay for this spot through the rent I pay to my landlord, it is MY spot (they donít own the car park, only operate it). Also, as this is a residential car park, a note to say íplease provide proof of permití would have been a much reasonable 1st step, rather than straight up issuing a 60 pound fine.
    - Disproportionately high sum. I refuse to pay 237 pounds in a situation where I had the right to park in my spot and I have/had proof at the time of the fine.

    Side note: my boyfriend has received a very similar charge from them. In his case, the sticker fell off the windshield, into the small crack between the glass and the dashboard, which resulted in only the top half of the ticket being visible. At the time I tried to reason with PPM, I called them and went through their internal appeals process (they rejected, no surprise there...). Now Iím just very angry and want justice.

    I would really appreciate any advice. Also, if anyone can help with defence letter writing, that would be amazing (I saw that a few people had help from experienced members).

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Zita_Z; 03-11-2017 at 12:37 PM. Reason: case has been closed
Page 2
    • Zita_Z
    • By Zita_Z 11th Jul 17, 9:53 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Zita_Z
    Hi,

    I have sent my defence to the court almost a month ago and haven't received the Directions Questionnaire yet, is this normal?
    Also, Gladstones have sent me an email with a copy of their DQ (trying to steer me towards paper-based hearing...). I'm not sure if it's them being proactive or they have already received theirs.
    I check my mailbox vigilantly every day and nothing yet, so I'm just a little worried I'm going to miss some deadline.

    Thanks for any advice on this.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Jul 17, 10:11 AM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 24,655 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    You do not want this to be determined 'on the papers'. This is a standard Gladstones ploy. You object to it to the court as the case is far from 'straightforward' (as G's insinuate) and you wish to question the company's witness in person (not that one will turn up - just their gun-for-hire solicitor).

    I'm not the court expert here, but I understand that you can download the DQ from MCOL.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 17, 5:56 PM
    • 51,719 Posts
    • 65,369 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would phone the court at CCBC and ask if they have forgotten to send you a DQ. Be ready for them to be very busy, read this, they are fed up with these scam parking cases:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5677956

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Zita_Z
    • By Zita_Z 16th Oct 17, 8:46 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Zita_Z
    Court appointment on Wednesday
    Hi everyone,

    Thanks so much for all your help so far. I have my court appointment scheduled for this Wednesday and I have a few questions/need reassurance I can win this thing.

    1. I missed the witness statement submission deadline by a few days. I was supposed to send it 2 weeks before the appt. but completely blanked and submitted it a few days later. Do I still have a chance of the judge accepting it? What happens in this case? Can they simply rule in the claimant's favour by default? I'm hoping they have some compassion for someone with a full-time job without legal representation.

    2. Let's assume they'll still hear me out - any general tips on what to focus on and how to conduct myself? Do I need to pretend I'm an actual lawyer and recite case law etc. by heart? Tried to look but couldn't find a lot of threads discussing the actual court hearings.

    3. Any areas I should focus on? Just to recap:
    I parked in my own bay at a residental car park. I have not directly signed a contract with the parking company. The estate rules of the complex are vague and don't mention them by name either. My sticky permit fell off onto the floor (act of God). Their signs say they don't accept retrospective evidence - I think that is an unfair term. This is a gated PIN-protected car park for residents so permits seem excessive anyway. They could use a more modern vehicle reg number directory - they are putting us at a disadvantage with this outdated system.

    Many thanks in advance!
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Oct 17, 6:56 AM
    • 1,812 Posts
    • 3,202 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    What does their contract / letter of authority say?

    This is a simple battle of forms now. The judge will want to compare both your lease / tenancy with their letter of authority (or should do)

    Loc also suggests

    send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    There is a template from LoC you can use too.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 17th Oct 17, 8:36 AM
    • 332 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    claxtome
    Let's assume they'll still hear me out - any general tips on what to focus on and how to conduct myself? Do I need to pretend I'm an actual lawyer and recite case law etc. by heart? Tried to look but couldn't find a lot of threads discussing the actual court hearings.
    The Judge understands that the defendant, you, is not familiar with court and court procedure. They will probably tell you that small claims procedures aren't very formal. In my case I didn't have to say a lot but it always best to be prepared.

    The following is just a suggestion and hopefully will ensure you have it clear in your head your case and defence (I always prefer things written down; hence why I did it):

    If it was me I would be tempted to put together a basic Skeleton Argument (not a formal one like I did - too late in your case I am afraid) but just a crib sheet of what you want to say. A 'formal' skeleton argument is a document you send to the judge and Claimant. It contains what you would say when you appear in court to present your case.

    In your crib sheet I would just have 2 headings in the document 'Defendant Arguments' and 'Rebutting Claimant Evidence and Arguments'. (or something similar).

    Under the first heading I would start with your 'main' defence and work down your other defence arguments. I would put in there references to the appropriate page in your 'defence statement' / 'Witness statement' /evidence or other document.

    Under the second heading I would want to put under there all the parts that refute/disagree with what they have sent you as evidence or WS. If they have quoted cases like say Beavis v Parking Eye I would put my arguments against those cases - if you have any.

    My skeleton argument is in post 165 of my 'Big Car park' thread->
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5640401&page=9#165

    Bear in mind I spent about a week preparing that - yours doesn't need to be that formal.

    I hope that helps.

    In case you are interested if you read on from post #165 of my thread you will get an idea of my successful experience at court.
    Last edited by claxtome; 18-10-2017 at 1:47 PM. Reason: formatting
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 17th Oct 17, 8:52 AM
    • 332 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    claxtome
    Unless trying to prove 'unreasonable behaviour' of Claimant the costs you can claim are:
    1) Loss of earnings @£XX per hour for YY hours
    max £95

    2) Mileage driven to attend court, including return, at 45p per mile

    3) Car parking on day of hearing (approx. unless you know)
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 17th Oct 17, 12:36 PM
    • 1,756 Posts
    • 2,868 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    You could still do a Skeleton, although the other side may fuss and say it's a late document, but you will say it is simply a helpful summary of everything they already have, with helpful page references. But equally, you could do your own informal crib sheet. The importance of page references is that when you say to the judge eg. that their signage was inadequate, you can then refer him/her to the picture(s) of the signage by reference to the page/tab number in the bundle.


    Your statement: if anyone says anything about late service (which they may not) you will say that it was still served in good time for the hearing and doesn't disadvantage the C at all - it is unlikely that it will be disallowed (if you tried to serve it tomorrow it might be different). I take it the other side have not complained about its late service?


    In court: relax, you are a Litigant in Person and are not expected to perform like Perry Mason or know things off by heart (lawyers refer to notes, they never reel things off by heart anyway - one of the skills of the lawyer is making good notes that are easy to refer to!). That is again why you should have a crib sheet - cross refer it to the legal authorities you are relying on. Take a separate bundle of those to court with you, with a spare copy to hand up to the judge and for the Claimant.


    Focus: have you proved firstly that your landlord had the right to park (granted in his lease) and secondly that (s)he granted you this right (granted in your tenancy or in a contract collateral to your tenancy if the tenancy is silent)? You say you have the right but you must demonstrate it.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 18th Oct 17, 1:29 PM
    • 1,756 Posts
    • 2,868 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Best of luck today
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 18th Oct 17, 1:46 PM
    • 332 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    claxtome
    Good luck too...
    If applying for costs don't forgot to take some proof of your salary. (like a payslip)
    • Zita_Z
    • By Zita_Z 18th Oct 17, 6:12 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Zita_Z
    Hi,
    Thank you to all of you for the great tips and all the help you've provided, it is really appreciated.

    In summary, we have lost one case and won one. If you remember from the beginning of my story, I actually had two PCNs to defend. Myself and my partner both got dragged to court, the circumstances were almost the same. Despite of all the preparation and research we've done, the judge dismissed pretty much of all my primary defences (primacy of contract, chain of authority, unilateral terms that cannot be complied with - displaying the sticky permit "at all times", uncontrollable events like the sticker falling onto the floor or peeling away from glass due to weather conditions, even the argument that the stickers are not fit for the purpose dueto poor quality). So in the end it came down to a technicality: in my case the sticker fell onto the floor, and in my partner's case it slipped into the crack with the bottom half covered by the window tint.

    Luckily, we were able to apply for costs in my partner's case, but I will have to pay 200 pounds...

    I have very mixed feelings, I may write a more detailed court report later on if there is interest. I don't feel like justice has been served. And my taxes pay for these courtrooms and judges so that's even more frustrating. My friends and family are saying I should be glad it's over and forget it, but after spending so much time and effort fighting for what I believed would be a just outcome, I just feel miserable.
    • bdark2755
    • By bdark2755 18th Oct 17, 7:03 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    bdark2755
    Oh no this is very distressing to read, I’m so sorry that you lost one. I’ve been following this thread with interest as I’m in the same predicament. Live in a gated complex and my permit fell off the dash onto the seat even though it was face up and clearly visible I didn’t get anywhere with my online appeal with the parking operator. 3 tickets on the car by the time of my next need to use it as I commute by bus.
    The chasing letters have started and at the moment I’m in ignore mode.
    The only difference in my case is I own the space, but am now fearing the worst.
    I would much appreciate a more detailed update when you feel up to it, but can fully understand how you must be feeling at the moment.
    What were the reasons for winning one and losing one? That seems very unfair to me.
    • kaych
    • By kaych 18th Oct 17, 7:21 PM
    • 333 Posts
    • 188 Thanks
    kaych
    I am sorry to hear that you have lost your case. It must be so frustrating considering that you have every right to park in your own allocated space. I am so angry with PPS and wished there were more I could do to destroy them.

    I am fighting a similar case myself (residential car park with allocated car parking space - but my case was they issued a new permit and I did not display the new one on time) against the PPS but at the POPLA appeal stage at the moment. It would be most helpful if you could share the reasons the judge dismissed your arguments, as I am using similar arguments as yours for my appeal.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 17, 12:28 AM
    • 51,719 Posts
    • 65,369 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Oh no this is very distressing to read, I’m so sorry that you lost one. I’ve been following this thread with interest as I’m in the same predicament. Live in a gated complex and my permit fell off the dash onto the seat even though it was face up and clearly visible I didn’t get anywhere with my online appeal with the parking operator. 3 tickets on the car by the time of my next need to use it as I commute by bus.
    The chasing letters have started and at the moment I’m in ignore mode.
    The only difference in my case is I own the space, but am now fearing the worst.
    I would much appreciate a more detailed update when you feel up to it, but can fully understand how you must be feeling at the moment.
    What were the reasons for winning one and losing one? That seems very unfair to me.
    Originally posted by bdark2755
    If you OWN the space why the heck are you scared and agreeing to display a permit at all?

    http://www.parking-prankster.com/more-case-law.html

    Click on and read Link v Parkinson.

    Start your own thread about how you should be fighting back, not fearing the worst.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Zita_Z
    • By Zita_Z 27th Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Zita_Z
    Court report
    Hi Everyone,

    As a few of you seem to be interested in a more detailed account of my court experience, I thought I would try and recap what happened.

    As our court date was a weekday morning, both me and my boyfriend had to take a day off from work. We got to the court about half an hour before our appointment. Funnily, we were scheduled for the exact same time. So there was a question of whether we would be called in after one another, or at the same time, but to a different judge. I think this must have thrown the Gladstones guys too as they had to send two solicitors on the off chance that our cases are being held in parallel. One of them seemed to be prepared, while the other only got the memo the afternoon before (he later admitted this). My guy came up to me before the hearing, we shook hands, I gave him an icy cold poker face stare (I wasn't there to make friends).

    Then they called my boyfriend in, and I was prepared to sit there and wait until his hearing is over. However, after about 10 minutes, the judge called me and the other solicitor in. He said that it looked like the two cases are so similar that if we all agree, they could be heard at the same time. He initially seemed kind and understanding of the fact the A) we're not lawyers B) we're from abroad, so he explained the process etc. Then he asked if we would be okay with switching the order of the testimonies (is that what they're called?), so that he would hear us, the Defendants speak first, then the Claimant (Gladstones). And he also said something along the lines of later coming back to any unclear points. I was quite happy with this proposal, as it seemed logical and something that could help us. So I went ahead and used my skeleton argument to list my main defences. As I thought that there would be a rebuttal stage after Gladstones's round, I did not go into much detail about my rebuttal defences - big mistake.

    My main arguments were:
    - Primacy of contract - my AST specifies an allocated parking spot
    - Unclear chain of authority between me and the parking company. The Estate Rules are vague about the parking scheme system and actually point to a completely different company managing parking (lazy !!!!!!!s probably forgot to update the document). The 'contract' they dug up for their Witness Statement is questionable as it is signed by the Managing Agent, not leaseholder/freeholder. So I wanted to challenge this.
    - No unauthorised parking took place. I had the right to park, they can't take it away. The signs and threats posted in the car park logically only apply to people who actually try to park there without the right.
    - Sticker permits are not fit for the purpose - they peeled away from the window after months of usage, they should have provided better quality stickers, as it's their responsibility
    - Permit scheme is unnecessary in a gated, PIN-protected car park
    - Their terms (on the signs) are unfair and put residents at a disadvantage (no retrospective evidence, paper-based permits that 'have to be fully displayed at all time'. I tried to protest this using uncontrollable events, vis maior etc. saying that weather conditions or air movements can affect the sticker.
    - I did not want to rely on this heavily, but they did not prove that I was driver and I intended to keep it this way
    - I brought up ParkingEye v Beavis to distinguish my case from that
    - In my case, I had timestamped photos from the morning of receiving the PCN with the sticker visible on the floor
    - In my boyfriends case, the sticker was still half visible in the crack between the windshield and the dash - it was partly covered by the tinted bottom part of the glass.

    Once I was finished, the judge asked a few questions, and then Gladstones had the opportunity to speak. They agreed that the guy who was more prepared should speak...

    He challenged all my defences in the nit-picky way that these people do, they know how to twist everything...
    Their responses:
    - As my AST has a clause that says that the Estate Rules form part of my agreement, they were quick to point out that the Estate Rules do mention a parking scheme. They acted dumb when I showed them that the documents point to a completely different company in charge of parking. The judge seemed to hold onto this for a minute as it was hard to determine which overrides which. My main goal was to create a bit of confusion and make them sweat. As they had the 'contract' dated 2015, it would have been possible that someone else took over since. But then based on the balance of probabilities the judge ruled that it was most likely that they DID have a contract with the estate...
    - They also pointed out that the signs are clearly visible and they say that the permit has to be fully visible at all times, no exceptions etc... They avoided the whole subject of vis maior or weather etc. affecting this. They kept saying that we should have made sure they were visible (like I was gonna camp out next to my car 24/7?? Unreasonable). They also avoided the fact that they don't in any case accept retrospective evidence. The judge seemed to side with them as a 'follow the rules to a t'-kind of person...
    - The last-minute guy also added that even though the car park is gated and PIN-protected, it does not fully prevent from unauthorised parking and that there is a benefit to having the parking scheme. He also said that the terms/estate rules/whatever document mentions that if the sticker needs to be replaced, you can request one from some maintenance guy. He did not mention that they want to charge you £10 for every replacement sticker.. he said that I could have asked for a new permit at any time if I felt the old one was losing its grip... [And what, replace it with another low quality piece of paper?]
    - He challenged my photos saying that they are not timestamped. This feels like it put me at a very big disadvantage and played a huge part in the judge ruling against me. The photos I took were on my phone, so the metadata did include the timestamp (this information was also retained in the digital copies of my witness statement), but obviously did not appear in the print copy of the photos the judge looked at during the hearing. Modern phones don't actually burn a timestamp in photos (whereas their cameras do), so maybe it was a poor choice of words, or I should have attached a metadata screen shot of the photos. Anyway, the judge did not let me intervene (I raised my hand and everything like a school kid), so even though all it would have taken is to have one look at my laptop screen (I had it ready), I did not have the chance to use it.
    - In my boyfriend's case, they got into this whole thing about the meaning of the word 'display'. The Gladstones guy insisted that the word 'display' implies that something is being seen. So then the judge spent a few minutes contemplating the linguistics of the issue.

    This is pretty much all I remember from their speech. As I mentioned, I was fully under the impression that I would have a chance for rebuttal (it wouldn't have made sense to me logically to cite my rebuttal defences BEFORE hearing their arguments), but the judge seemed to have heard enough and sent everyone out while he came to a decision. I was shocked, at that point I was really mad, at myself for apparently 'misunderstanding' his explanation of the procedure, and also at the judge cause it didn't seem fair.

    After about 10 minutes, he called us back, and more or less addressed all the points raised.
    - With regards to the paperwork nitty-gritty side of things, he pretty much sided with Gladstones on all points. 'Based on the balance of probabilities', apparently, he thought it most likely that they had a valid contract, he thought it most likely that my managing agent had the authority to sign that contract (on behalf of 500+ flats, even though it was clearly not for our benefit - goes against so much of the case law I read up on), he thought their terms were not unreasonable etc. He also said that base don the balance of probabilities, I was likely the driver.
    - He basically said that Parking Eye v Beavis DOES apply here, which made no sense to me. He basically defended these guys and said that based on that case the charge does not have to correlate with a loss. Even though I clearly mentioned that PE v B does not apply in residential cases. He didn't say anything about retrospective evidence not being accepted or vis maior.
    - He also disagreed with my point that using a digital system would be much better and more convenient for residents as opposed to the outdated paper permits. He said something like 'he doesn't think computer-based system is required'. So much for discouraging these companies from operating these horrible schemes.
    - He also dismissed my sticker quality defence, agreeing with Gladstones that I had the opportunity to ask for a new sticker at any time (I was going to point out that the maintenance guy's office is only open Mon-Fri 9-5, which is the exact time me, my boyfriend, and most people's working hours are, so no, I could not have got a new sticker 'anytime' - moot point as I never got to chance to actually say this).
    - In the end, it all came down to the technicalities of the individual cases. He agreed with Gladstones that as my photos were not _literally_ timestamped, I could not prove they were taken at the time of receiving the PCN. So I lost. In my boyfriend's case, I think he mentioned something along the lines of 'intention', that the sticker was displayed with the intention of being seen/fully visible, and the fact that it was partly covered did not mean that it was not displayed. So he dismissed their claim against him.

    One of my biggest pains is that I did not get the chance to use one of my best rebuttals - in all the time I lived at this place, the space next to us was occupied by a motorcycle. it never displayed a sticker (for obvious reasons), and despite of this, I never saw any PCNs being issues to its owner. Maybe he did have some sort of agreement with the parking company, but nevertheless, it completely disqualifies their argument that the sticker must _always_ be displayed and _fully visible_. My boyfriend said that even this may not have mattered as I could not prove that the bike owner parked there of that he never got a PCN (even though I took some photos of the bike at one point). Do you think this would have changed anything?

    All in all, what threw me off was how formulaic the judge's process was. At the beginning he did mention that he expected us not to talk over each other and interrupt etc., which is reasonable, I understand that this is court, not a family dinner But I did not expect him to be so strict and not allow any back and forth discussion. And as I mentioned my understanding was that after the Gladstones speech we'd have a second chance to speak. That would have been a very good structure in my mind. Whereas having us fire all our shots first, and then letting Gladstones try to cover their asses with legal mumble jumble put us at a disadvantage. I'd love to hear others' experiences with this, especially someone who goes to court more often as
    a solicitor etc? Is this normal or did we really get the short end of the stick?

    Last few minutes were spend with the paperwork. I wrote a list of costs for my boyfriend, which was more or less accepted. Although the judge did say as it was the two of us in the car, he's only going to allow half of our fuel costs to be submitted. This sounded silly as the cases were independent of each other, had he not taken on my case at the time, he wouldn't have learned that we even lived together? Also, I lost my case, so it's not like we were trying to claim back the same money twice. He should have been awarded with the full fuel cost.

    When it came to how much I'll have to pay Gladstones, the judge did pick up on the fact that they were asking for 8% interest, which is quite ridiculous given how interest rates are universally in the gutter these days. But in the end I still ended up with a £200 bill to pay VS £100 being paid to my boyfriend.

    So this may explain why I have very mixed feelings about my experience. I did not expect the scales to be tipped in my favour, but I also did not expect everything to sort of be working against us either. Especially given the fact that my taxes pay for these county courts to exist, and they are being used by these bottom feeders to extort money from innocent people.

    Even more irony for you - as we were about to leave the council-operated car park, the machine would not accept my card to pay. It was a new system that used a checking in and checking out process (rather than prepaid - which makes sense in this setting), so we had to call the operators and they were gonna send me the invoice to pay via email. Guess what, a week later, and there's still nothing in my inbox. So I might end up with another, council-issued parking ticket acquired while trying to defend myself at court. My life is like a sitcom, or dramedy, more like.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Oct 17, 5:40 PM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 24,655 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What a great, detailed report, one of the very best I’ve read here. It’s just a great shame that it was to detail bad news. Sorry about your loss, but I guess it’s slightly less of a bitter pill to swallow given your bf’s success.

    Thanks for sharing with us.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 28th Oct 17, 5:35 AM
    • 1,812 Posts
    • 3,202 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    DJ lottery but jointly you are paying out £100 for all their costs which are Court fees (£100), Gladstones fees (£100) and Lay Rep Fees (2 * £150).

    Forgot to add the 2 * £100 that they wanted at the start so ....

    You are out £100. They are out £500 plus they didn't get a further £200.

    You have to wonder what genius at Gladstones think that costing a client a net £400 for them to NOT get £200 is a useful way forward.

    There is someone being scammed here, and IMHO it's the PPC.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 28-10-2017 at 8:21 AM.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 28th Oct 17, 8:03 AM
    • 332 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    claxtome
    I am so disappointed to hear/read the outcome of this case. You obviously had prepared well but it looks like, as IamEmanresu said, you were unlucky in the DJ you got. Sorry
    • Zita_Z
    • By Zita_Z 30th Oct 17, 11:10 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Zita_Z
    IamEmanresu - this made me laugh, thanks for making me feel better about the whole thing.

    I tried to do the math myself too but I wasn't sure about fees etc. so I couldn't tell exactly how much it would have cost them. I think that in this case the PPC actually sold the debt to Gladstones (at a discounted price I assume), which takes the risk off their shoulders, and Gladstones then decide to either take it all the way to court or not. Surely the PPCs wouldn't be in it if they were to destined to lose money?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 30th Oct 17, 11:28 AM
    • 6,465 Posts
    • 8,280 Thanks
    beamerguy
    IamEmanresu - this made me laugh, thanks for making me feel better about the whole thing.

    I tried to do the math myself too but I wasn't sure about fees etc. so I couldn't tell exactly how much it would have cost them. I think that in this case the PPC actually sold the debt to Gladstones (at a discounted price I assume), which takes the risk off their shoulders, and Gladstones then decide to either take it all the way to court or not. Surely the PPCs wouldn't be in it if they were to destined to lose money?
    Originally posted by Zita_Z
    Unlikely that Gladstones purchased the debt. As far as Gladstones
    is concerned, whilst highly incompetent when acting for the
    PPC's I doubt they would put themselves in a complete
    failure position .... mind you, in saying that they now seem
    to be in "failure" mode a lot recently
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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