PCM invoice at High Point Village

whaqqer · 13 March 2017 at 1:02PM

I was issued a PCN at High Point Village in Hayes. I know there are a number of threads on this forum relating to this 'drop off' area and have read through them all.

So I received the initial PCN to which I appealed as based on the letter from here not disclosing who was driving my car that day, etc. I received a response from PCM advising me that they had considered it but the charge still stood as the signage is clear and informed the driver of the contractual obligations they agreed to by parking (they also offer a definition of parking which I've already had answered elsewhere on here) in this area. The car only stopped for a few moments whilst dropping a passenger. They then continue that there were several parking bays available and the driver should have used one of those.

I have also written to the CEO of Ballymore Homes who are the freeholder of the land but have had no response from them.

My argument was going to be that the contract between PCM and Ballymore stated that there was a 20 minute grace period to which PCM had not adhered but it appears from another thread that they have now closed off this loophole with a new contract.

My question is, yes there is one after all this, is this a case that I could now win as the loophole is closed and I'm not sure what arguments I could put forward.

Thanks in advance for anyone that offers any advice.

Fruitcake · 13 March 2017 at 1:38PM

Please tell us the name of the parking company, not just the initials.

This will tell us which ATA the scammers belong to and the ATA's CoP will say what the grace periods are that they should adhere to.

It will also tell us if it is worth a second stage appeal, although that information is already given in the NEWBIES thread.

whaqqer · 13 March 2017 at 1:43PM

Hi Fruitcake,

The company is PCM or Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd.

They have offered me the IAS but from what I've read about them, there is no point as the outcome is almost guaranteed to be against the owner of the car.

Fruitcake · 13 March 2017 at 2:03PM

whaqqer wrote: »

Hi Fruitcake,

The company is PCM or Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd.

They have offered me the IAS but from what I've read about them, there is no point as the outcome is almost guaranteed to be against the owner of the car.

OK, so no point in doing anything after the initial appeal unless you get real court papers.

Timothea · 13 March 2017 at 2:08PM

As you have been following other threads about this, you should already know the answer to your question. There are many grounds you can still use to defend this, depending on your circumstances. These include:

inadequate signage
entrapment
no parking event
no grace period
driver not identified
POFA non-compliance
CCR non-compliance
DPA non-compliance

However, you are going to get nowhere with appeals to PCM, IAS or Ballymore; they don't care. Your only realistic opportunity to beat this is when it goes to court, which could be at any time in the next six years. You therefore need to prepare for that eventuality now, while your memory is fresh and to gather evidence.

If you don't want this to drag on then you could take the bull by the horns and threaten to sue PCM for DPA breaches. This is only likely to work if you can present a strong claim and you are prepared to follow through with your threat. However, this is not for the faint-hearted and would require quite a lot of your time.

whaqqer · 13 March 2017 at 3:01PM

Thanks Timothea,

Your response was exactly what I was hoping for. Most other cases at this site seemed to have been won based on the previous grace period granted by the contract with the landowner but now that the contract has been amended to exclude that then I wondered what other grounds I could use. I will start researching each of the points you made.

Should I reply to PCM refusing the IAS or just leave it now until the court papers arrive? Also, would it help my case at court if I make an application to the DVLA as others have posted requesting who and when the keeper information was requested?

Timothea · 13 March 2017 at 3:23PM

whaqqer wrote: »

Should I reply to PCM refusing the IAS or just leave it now until the court papers arrive? Also, would it help my case at court if I make an application to the DVLA as others have posted requesting who and when the keeper information was requested?

There's not much point in giving PCM any more information. Certainly contact DVLA to make a subject access request. Once you have those details, you could send PCM a section 10 data subject notice, which is described in post #1 here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388

You should also collect other evidence (e.g. photos of the signage and the road layout) and write down an account of exactly what happened (for your benefit) before you forget any details. Keep all paperwork and correspondence.

Once you have researched why the charge is invalid, you should complain to DVLA about PCM obtaining your personal information without reasonable cause.

whaqqer · 18 April 2017 at 10:18AM

Thanks for all the advice received so far.

On Thursday I received a letter from Trace Debt Collectors demanding I now pay an updated fee of £160 for the parking invoice.

Should I acknowledge receipt of this letter to them, or just file it away and await the solicitors letter?

Thanks

Umkomaas · 18 April 2017 at 10:25AM

whaqqer wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice received so far.

On Thursday I received a letter from Trace Debt Collectors demanding I now pay an updated fee of £160 for the parking invoice.

Should I acknowledge receipt of this letter to them, or just file it away and await the solicitors letter?

Thanks

Section 4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky tells you how to deal with debt collectors. In short 'ignore'.

Come back if you get a Letter Before Claim or real court papers.

whaqqer · 18 April 2017 at 10:42AM

Thanks Umkomaas for the quick reply,

That's what I was planning to do but just wanted to confirm my understanding was correct from someone with experience from this board first.

Letter filed away!

whaqqer · 30 June 2017 at 9:46AM

So an update on my situation, I received a letter from Gladstones last Saturday morning, 24th June (although they have stated 16th June on the letter!) so their option to pay within 7 days of the letter was impossible anyway (not that I have any intention to pay!!)

I have drafted a response to their LBC and would be grateful for the boards opinions.

Thanks

Your Reference: xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sirs
Re: PCN xxxxxxxxxxx – Letter Before County Court Claim

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your Letter Before Claim dated 16th June 2017.
First, I deny any debt to Parking Control Management (UK) Limited and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.
Secondly, in reading your letter I do not believe (in reading through the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Conduct) that it is fully compliant with the Practice Direction: it is in fact woefully defective and possibly a deliberate attempt to mislead the recipient.
Please therefore provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of the Practice Direction: areas which you are not compliant are listed below:
2.1 The claimant’s letter should give concise details about the matter, allowing the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without needing to request further information. The letter should include
(1) the claimant’s full name and address;
(2) the basis on which the claim is made (i.e. why the claimant says the defendant is liable): Contract Claim, Trespass Claim or other;
(3) a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based: why exactly has the defendant been charged;
(4) what the claimant wants from the defendant;
(5) if financial loss is claimed, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated (including any increases from the original amount claimed)

2.2 The letter should also
(1) list fully the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely. You cannot presume that all the documents you will rely on are in my possession. I do acknowledge that once I have submitted my defence then further documents in rebuttal maybe submitted by the claimant;
(2) set out the form of any further ADR (if any) that the claimant considers the most suitable and invite the defendant to agree to this;

In addition to the above I would like to see every photo taken and all the evidence provided to make this claim against me.
Please confirm that your client's contract with the land-holder includes specific authority to take legal action and that this will be produced for the court. I also require an explanation/justification for any additional charges added to the original including confirmation that these have already been invoiced and paid to any third parties involved.
When I receive the documents and your explanations, I will be in a better position to make a more detailed response. It would be unreasonable to proceed with litigation before you have clarified your client's cause of action.
I look forward to your response.
Yours faithfully

PCM invoice at High Point Village

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