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  • FIRST POST
    • whaqqer
    • By whaqqer 13th Mar 17, 12:02 PM
    • 7Posts
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    whaqqer
    PCM invoice at High Point Village
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 17, 12:02 PM
    PCM invoice at High Point Village 13th Mar 17 at 12:02 PM
    I was issued a PCN at High Point Village in Hayes. I know there are a number of threads on this forum relating to this 'drop off' area and have read through them all.

    So I received the initial PCN to which I appealed as based on the letter from here not disclosing who was driving my car that day, etc. I received a response from PCM advising me that they had considered it but the charge still stood as the signage is clear and informed the driver of the contractual obligations they agreed to by parking (they also offer a definition of parking which I've already had answered elsewhere on here) in this area. The car only stopped for a few moments whilst dropping a passenger. They then continue that there were several parking bays available and the driver should have used one of those.

    I have also written to the CEO of Ballymore Homes who are the freeholder of the land but have had no response from them.

    My argument was going to be that the contract between PCM and Ballymore stated that there was a 20 minute grace period to which PCM had not adhered but it appears from another thread that they have now closed off this loophole with a new contract.

    My question is, yes there is one after all this, is this a case that I could now win as the loophole is closed and I'm not sure what arguments I could put forward.

    Thanks in advance for anyone that offers any advice.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    • 38,962 Posts
    • 77,736 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    Please tell us the name of the parking company, not just the initials.

    This will tell us which ATA the scammers belong to and the ATA's CoP will say what the grace periods are that they should adhere to.

    It will also tell us if it is worth a second stage appeal, although that information is already given in the NEWBIES thread.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • whaqqer
    • By whaqqer 13th Mar 17, 12:43 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    whaqqer
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 12:43 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 12:43 PM
    Hi Fruitcake,

    The company is PCM or Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd.

    They have offered me the IAS but from what I've read about them, there is no point as the outcome is almost guaranteed to be against the owner of the car.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Mar 17, 1:03 PM
    • 38,962 Posts
    • 77,736 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 17, 1:03 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 17, 1:03 PM
    Hi Fruitcake,

    The company is PCM or Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd.

    They have offered me the IAS but from what I've read about them, there is no point as the outcome is almost guaranteed to be against the owner of the car.
    Originally posted by whaqqer
    OK, so no point in doing anything after the initial appeal unless you get real court papers.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 13th Mar 17, 1:08 PM
    • 118 Posts
    • 233 Thanks
    Timothea
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 17, 1:08 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 17, 1:08 PM
    As you have been following other threads about this, you should already know the answer to your question. There are many grounds you can still use to defend this, depending on your circumstances. These include:
    • inadequate signage
    • entrapment
    • no parking event
    • no grace period
    • driver not identified
    • POFA non-compliance
    • CCR non-compliance
    • DPA non-compliance

    However, you are going to get nowhere with appeals to PCM, IAS or Ballymore; they don't care. Your only realistic opportunity to beat this is when it goes to court, which could be at any time in the next six years. You therefore need to prepare for that eventuality now, while your memory is fresh and to gather evidence.

    If you don't want this to drag on then you could take the bull by the horns and threaten to sue PCM for DPA breaches. This is only likely to work if you can present a strong claim and you are prepared to follow through with your threat. However, this is not for the faint-hearted and would require quite a lot of your time.
    • whaqqer
    • By whaqqer 13th Mar 17, 2:01 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    whaqqer
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 17, 2:01 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 17, 2:01 PM
    Thanks Timothea,

    Your response was exactly what I was hoping for. Most other cases at this site seemed to have been won based on the previous grace period granted by the contract with the landowner but now that the contract has been amended to exclude that then I wondered what other grounds I could use. I will start researching each of the points you made.

    Should I reply to PCM refusing the IAS or just leave it now until the court papers arrive? Also, would it help my case at court if I make an application to the DVLA as others have posted requesting who and when the keeper information was requested?
    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 13th Mar 17, 2:23 PM
    • 118 Posts
    • 233 Thanks
    Timothea
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 17, 2:23 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 17, 2:23 PM
    Should I reply to PCM refusing the IAS or just leave it now until the court papers arrive? Also, would it help my case at court if I make an application to the DVLA as others have posted requesting who and when the keeper information was requested?
    Originally posted by whaqqer
    There's not much point in giving PCM any more information. Certainly contact DVLA to make a subject access request. Once you have those details, you could send PCM a section 10 data subject notice, which is described in post #1 here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388

    You should also collect other evidence (e.g. photos of the signage and the road layout) and write down an account of exactly what happened (for your benefit) before you forget any details. Keep all paperwork and correspondence.

    Once you have researched why the charge is invalid, you should complain to DVLA about PCM obtaining your personal information without reasonable cause.
    Last edited by Timothea; 13-03-2017 at 2:26 PM.
    • whaqqer
    • By whaqqer 18th Apr 17, 10:18 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    whaqqer
    • #8
    • 18th Apr 17, 10:18 AM
    • #8
    • 18th Apr 17, 10:18 AM
    Thanks for all the advice received so far.

    On Thursday I received a letter from Trace Debt Collectors demanding I now pay an updated fee of 160 for the parking invoice.

    Should I acknowledge receipt of this letter to them, or just file it away and await the solicitors letter?

    Thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Apr 17, 10:25 AM
    • 12,722 Posts
    • 19,590 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 18th Apr 17, 10:25 AM
    • #9
    • 18th Apr 17, 10:25 AM
    Thanks for all the advice received so far.

    On Thursday I received a letter from Trace Debt Collectors demanding I now pay an updated fee of 160 for the parking invoice.

    Should I acknowledge receipt of this letter to them, or just file it away and await the solicitors letter?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by whaqqer
    Section 4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky tells you how to deal with debt collectors. In short 'ignore'.

    Come back if you get a Letter Before Claim or real court papers.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • whaqqer
    • By whaqqer 18th Apr 17, 10:42 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    whaqqer
    Thanks Umkomaas for the quick reply,

    That's what I was planning to do but just wanted to confirm my understanding was correct from someone with experience from this board first.

    Letter filed away!
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