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The good fat bad fat controversy!

meritaten
meritaten Posts: 24,158 Forumite
edited 31 May 2016 at 4:48PM in Old style MoneySaving
There is a thread down in DT which is commenting on something I watched on Breakfast news this morning, about gov advice on limiting saturated fats (butter, lard etc). I didn't quite catch it all but the upshot seems to be that the advice was given based on studies which were 'flawed'.
Now I don't really want a debate on Studies and how Gov Advice varies from decade to decade.
What I would really like is peoples thoughts on 'definitions of 'fat or obese'. whether our diet is better or worse these days? your experiences of 'fat free' diets?

I was thinking back and in my childhood most women were rather more 'well padded' than today. I mean the average woman. today they are either thin or obese! Okay - slight exaggeration there but you know what I mean!

my own observation is that with the rise of 'fast food' chains and ready meals - so a greater part of the population has become 'obese'.
I was born in the mid-1950s - well before all the food fad diets and junk foods.
I did have a weight problem when I gave up smoking and tried a low fat diet and put ON weight!
I now eat a diet very similar to that I ate as a child (with the inclusion of 'foreign foods'). its rare that I eat a takeaway and I never touch burgers or fast chicken! I also eat more during the day and its rare for me to eat after 6pm.
but I don't limit butter (the more butter the better), I will have chips or fried foods - I don't eat much fruit but loads of salad and veg. and for the last 12 years or so my weight has stayed roughly the same - which is about right for my height and I feel comfortable with it. (for the last 18 months I haven't been able to eat any wheat products or yeast)

The 'fat end of the wedge' thread is here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5467669

What do all of you think?
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Comments

  • DigForVictory
    DigForVictory Posts: 11,962 Forumite
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    I'll eat & cook with real butter in preference to a dubious chemical mix every time.

    If I have the strength/energy/time/money I even make my own butter using a (thoroughly cleaned out) jam jar, cream & a whole lot of shaking - excellent cardio exercise!
  • GreyQueen
    GreyQueen Posts: 13,008 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    :) I'm in my early fifties so the bits of childhood I can remember properly are cusp of 1960s and into 1970s - I was just about an adult as we moved into the 1980s.

    I was once talking with a gym owner the exact same age as myself. He said; Remember when we were growing up? There was maybe one fat kid per class. And they were just a bit chubby by modern standards, not fat like you see now.

    We're living in a world full of processed food spun from cheap carbs, cheap sugar, cheap vegetable oils and made palatable by copious amounts of salt, flavourings and kept from decay by lashings of preservatives. All this suits the food industry very well; you don't build transnational corporations on raising carrots or broccoli and selling them as raw veg.

    Human beings aren't evolved to eat this processed carp and it's unsurprising that the consequences are to be seen in horrendous girth and appalling health outcomes like type 2 diabetes. If things carry on as they are, never mind worsen further, people will be burying their children not the other way around.:(

    I'm low-carbing and eating a lot of vegetables, a small amount of fruit and as much meat, fish and cheese, with olive oil, avocado and dark chocolate as I like each days. And, like just about any overweight person on such a diet, I am losing 1-2 lb per week effortlessly.

    Eating fat doesn't make you fat - your body turns carbohydrates into glucose and what the liver and muscles can't hold gets turned into saturated fat and stored on your person, to be drawn on when the hunt fails tomorrow and you and the tribe don't have anything much to eat for the next week or so.

    We don't have periodic famines so we store fat which we don't draw down on, and add to it yearly.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)
  • meritaten
    meritaten Posts: 24,158 Forumite
    Thank you Upsidedown Bear - That was interesting reading!
    What are YOUR thoughts on the matter though?
  • suki1964
    suki1964 Posts: 14,313 Forumite
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    I stopped believing the gvt over what we should eat years ago

    I cook with lard, butter and oils

    I put butter on my bread

    I eat eggs or cheese ( as well as oily fish ) most days

    I eat 25% mince as its tastier


    I actually eat the kind of diet I grew up on in the 60's and 70's

    Very little meat, plenty of veg and a good helping of carbs

    The only difference is where as it used to be mince and tatties, it's now a keema curry or a lasagne

    I eat as pure as I can. I'm no saint, I buy tinned beans still :). But the more I eat "clean" the less I can tolerate processed

    You take the bones and fat out of meat and you are left with a tasteless product so you end up adding more salt and more flavourings ( flavours ok if it's natural herbs and spices, a big fat no if it's a packet mix imo)

    Why fill your belly with processed carp when the real deal is so tasty and wholesome and more filling?
  • thriftwizard
    thriftwizard Posts: 4,786 Forumite
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    I've known for a long time that carbs don't suit me, so to be honest I've just stayed away from doctors & dieticians as far as possible! Born in the late 50s, I somehow managed to avoid fad diets etc. up until I had my first baby at 29; I was then heavily encouraged to go onto a high-carb, low-fat diet to "lose the baby weight" although I'd put on less than a stone throughout. I lasted about 3 days... I felt terrible, and my milk supply nearly dried up.

    So I've always just quietly ignored the official advice, and though I'm no sylph I've never been seriously overweight, or unfit, and the only one of my offspring who has ever been a tad over the norm is the one who can't resist sugary, floury treats. It's almost as if she's addicted to them, and although she's well inside the normal range now she still struggles to pass up those giant cupcakes that are so sweet they make me gag!

    I grew up on good West Country farmland, surrounded by whip-thin, nut-brown, hardworking healthy people who ate a good cooked breakfast every morning, pasties or dripping sandwiches for lunch and meat & two veg for supper. We drank milk that hadn't got as far as the dairy, and had eggs with everything - we had 30-odd chickens and sold eggs at the door.

    A few years ago I invested in a copy of "Nourishing Traditions" which confirmed many of my already-existing biases. I don't agree with every word of it, but there's a lot of good sense in there. It also emphasises fermentation, which is something I do a lot of; it's possible that the ways in which our mass-produced carbs like supermarket bread are prepared are responsible for some of our current problems. Real, nourishing, delicious bread simply can't be produced in 20 minutes...
    Angie - GC Nov 24: £538.27/£450 - oh dear...: 2024 Fashion on the Ration Challenge: 24/68: (Money's just a substitute for time & talent...)
  • fuddle
    fuddle Posts: 6,823 Forumite
    A generalisation, of course, but for me low fat = messed with so a low fat diet isn't something that I go for. GQ I know you're a Mark's Daily Apple and I too lost weight, and got my health back on track following a primal way of eating so I fullly get where the messages about fats being beneficial.

    Neither side seem to be backing down on this with the low fat side calling the fat side irresponsible. Personally I find the science behind fats fascinating plus, as a wholesome-and-not-messed-with eater I go for fats that haven't be modified, extracted, added to etc.

    All this can be confusing but a diet that is close to what nature provides can't to too far wrong. For me it's field over factory that is important and by sticking to those principles I need not worry about headlines or research. Moderation. :)
  • Any
    Any Posts: 7,957 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    My sister is constantly on some sort of diet. No carbs, no fat, no sugar, no this, no that.. They differ all the time.
    Now her metabolism is so messed up that she is just putting on weight. You "deny" yourself something all the time, you get bigger cravings. The moment diet is over (often after being miserable for days and cheating) she overeats. She gains weight by even looking at grass now!
    It's no way to live and the changing advice is making matters worse. Your body is under some stress all the time. And so is your mind. It won't function properly under constant stress.

    I try to eat sensibly. I will have cakes in the afternoon, I have salad for lunch. going out for lunch, ramen soup for tea. Keep busy. Eat when hungry. I love food, but that doesn't mean I need to eat all the time. I enjoy researching recipes and such. I am lucky that I love salads. I have gained a stone since my teenage years (over a decade ago), but at size 10 I am happy enough.
  • GreyQueen
    GreyQueen Posts: 13,008 Forumite
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    edited 24 May 2016 at 7:08AM
    :( I'm sad that your sister has been yo-yo dieting and has messed up her metabolism. This is unfortunately a common outcome for serial dieters. Being 1 stone up on your teen weight in your twenties is no biggie but imagine you're my age and have added a stone per decade, and thing start to look a little less innocuous.

    I'm not a serial dieter. In fact, I am a never dieter, as I was formerly very active and had one of those hollow-legs types of metabolism and mostly ate the see-food diet.

    In middle age, and menopausal, I was experiencing steady weight gain until I was 5 stone overweight. That was impacting most unpleasantly on my joints and general well-being. Exactly how unpleasant it was is definately TMI for the thread, but even 1.5 stone down in 3 months is reaping huge benefits.

    If you diet by severe calorie restriction, it inevitably comes back when you resume whatever normal eating pattern lead you to the overweight in the first place.

    There are apparently 3,500 calories secreted in 1 lb of fat on a human being, which is considerably more than a day's needs. There is also growing evidence that a body will want to re-set itself to the former (highest) weight and will aim to achieve that, meaning a person had to further restrict calories to achieve the same results, which you have noticed in your sister. This is miserable. And suggests that you don't want to allow your highest to be very high at all.

    There is a growing body of evidence that the genetically-engineered dwarf wheat which came into consumption in 1960, is responsible for many many modern health woes, especially gross stimulation of appetite for other carbohydrate-heavy foods.

    Until I reset my metabolism by carb restriction, I was a total sugar-fiend, a bit like thriftwizard's daughter, with an uncontrollable urge to stuff my face with sugary rubbish and bread. Once reset, which takes from a few days to a week or so, I am effectively burning my own body fat down. I also don't crave sweeties or get the wobbles and have to eat every 1-2 hours.

    This isn't a diet in the sense of doing something for a while to achieve some weightloss, then back to business as usual, rinse and repeat ad nauseum (sic). It's a permanant change of lifestyle.

    Typical breakfast chez GQ; 8-10 veg salad, heaping plateful, sprinkled with sesame seeds and containing two hardboiled eggs and a slug of cold-pressed extra virgin olive oil. Lunch is a smaller version of same with a very small amount of protein such as cold cooked meat.

    Snack at about 4 pm (timed meds with food requre this) was yesterday some celery sticks with camenbert. Evening meal, something like more fresh veg and a modest amount of meat or fish. Little or no spuds. Snacks not usually required but might have a few nuts if feeling peckish.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)
  • pollypenny
    pollypenny Posts: 29,410 Forumite
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    The yo-yo advice is just irritating. Moderation is the key, including the odd processed meal won't harm.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
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