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  • FIRST POST
    • daniel80
    • By daniel80 22nd Oct 15, 6:31 PM
    • 230Posts
    • 48Thanks
    daniel80
    London Capital and Finance
    • #1
    • 22nd Oct 15, 6:31 PM
    London Capital and Finance 22nd Oct 15 at 6:31 PM
    Anyone had any dealing with this company. My son has 25k to invest for only 2 years as it will be a house deposit. Iv`e told him to stay away from the stock market as 2 years is not long enough. As he is not overly keen with saving accounts cash isa`s etc due to low interest rates I said what about premium bonds a gamble on winning but stake is safe only loss would be inflation. When I googled investment ideas a link came up who were called specialist investment ideas with free advice. I put in my details..I received a call about half an hour later the guy recommended the above company which was based in Mayfair. he sounded very posh. He said London Capital and Finance were offering bonds paying 8% the money being lent to various companies to a maximum of 60% of their assist. He seems more of a salesman than an advisor and wants to phone back Monday. Brochure looks ok online but something does not seem right. Anyone dealt with these.

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    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 01-09-2016 at 2:14 PM.
Page 4
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 16th Oct 16, 2:20 PM
    • 6,403 Posts
    • 11,333 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Steve: saw your posts earlier this year. Curious to know your position on LC&F now?
    Originally posted by goldenmagpie
    The LC&F offering has not changed substantially, remaining unsuitable for savers or mainstream investors. It is a specialist offering for sophisticated, high net worth or restricted investors (FCA definitions).
    They are member of FCA reg no 722603 - whatever that means. I am trying to keep safe, savings for personal health care in future as I have life-quality-reducing and life-limiting condition
    It means that they are licensed for secondary credit broking, which is far removed from the regulated activities which would be useful to you, such as taking customer deposits. Their investment options involve potential 100% loss of capital without any FSCS protection.

    Would you qualify as a sophisticated or high net worth investor? Like, you have income over £100k a year, net assets of over £250k excluding your home and value under insurance or pension contracts, or you work in private equity, or as a director of a company turning over £1m+ and have made multiple investments in unlisted companies in the last couple of years. Or you always invest under 10% of you money in things that can't be easily cashed in (restricted investor).

    Given your goal of keeping your money safe over a limited lifespan, it seems like investing in bonds which offer 100% loss potential would seem unwise. Did you read all the other posts in the thread from experienced and longstanding forum members? If not, do that.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 16th Oct 16, 5:41 PM
    • 88,094 Posts
    • 53,325 Thanks
    dunstonh
    They are member of FCA reg no 722603 - whatever that means.
    It means very little if the product being sold is not a regulated retail packaged product.

    I am trying to keep safe, savings for personal health care in future as I have life-quality-reducing and life-limiting condition.
    So, what they offer is totally unsuitable for you.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Sledger
    • By Sledger 14th Nov 16, 1:52 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Sledger
    existing LCF investor
    A previous comment made here states that LCF record on interest for the last 3 years is sound. I have just received my due interest and assuming this trend continues, after 3 years I will have received 24% back in interest l(less tax) reducing a 100% capital risk loss as stated elsewhere on this forum.. Assuming typical interests earned elsewhere are 1%+ compared to LCF 8% were frozen, and LCF continued in business, the break even risk free point to recoup my capital is about 15-16 years (Ignoring Interest compounding and after Tax) . its then interest $$$$$$$ plain sailing from there on with the " secured" capital being returned as a bonus. Any legitimate business wants to succeed and grow and the fundamentals . of matching lenders with investors. and get a operating margin seems sound. and LCF appear to be growing as per their expectations. The hard bit to accept here is our conditioning to anybody offering high interest way above the norm sets up alarm bells and caution. I am remaining positive with LCF and have taken that risk
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 14th Nov 16, 3:03 PM
    • 88,094 Posts
    • 53,325 Thanks
    dunstonh
    A previous comment made here states that LCF record on interest for the last 3 years is sound. I have just received my due interest and assuming this trend continues, after 3 years I will have received 24% back in interest l(less tax) reducing a 100% capital risk loss as stated elsewhere on this forum.. Assuming typical interests earned elsewhere are 1%+ compared to LCF 8% were frozen, and LCF continued in business, the break even risk free point to recoup my capital is about 15-16 years (Ignoring Interest compounding and after Tax) . its then interest $$$$$$$ plain sailing from there on with the " secured" capital being returned as a bonus. Any legitimate business wants to succeed and grow and the fundamentals . of matching lenders with investors. and get a operating margin seems sound. and LCF appear to be growing as per their expectations. The hard bit to accept here is our conditioning to anybody offering high interest way above the norm sets up alarm bells and caution. I am remaining positive with LCF and have taken that risk
    Originally posted by Sledger
    If legitimate, why do they market unregulated 100% capital at loss investments in a style that is designed to confuse savers looking for fixed term deposits?

    Interest rates on risk based investments generally reflect the risk of default when compared to risk free assets.

    It is fine that you are happy with a 100% loss based unregulated investment. You know that you could lose the lot and if and when that happens (as has happened with similar companies taking such an approach) then you can afford to lose it as nobody would put a lot of money in this sort of thing. General guidance is no more than 5% of your investable assets. Losing 5% wont hurt much.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 14th Nov 16, 6:24 PM
    • 9,139 Posts
    • 5,840 Thanks
    bigadaj
    A previous comment made here states that LCF record on interest for the last 3 years is sound. I have just received my due interest and assuming this trend continues, after 3 years I will have received 24% back in interest l(less tax) reducing a 100% capital risk loss as stated elsewhere on this forum.. Assuming typical interests earned elsewhere are 1%+ compared to LCF 8% were frozen, and LCF continued in business, the break even risk free point to recoup my capital is about 15-16 years (Ignoring Interest compounding and after Tax) . its then interest $$$$$$$ plain sailing from there on with the " secured" capital being returned as a bonus. Any legitimate business wants to succeed and grow and the fundamentals . of matching lenders with investors. and get a operating margin seems sound. and LCF appear to be growing as per their expectations. The hard bit to accept here is our conditioning to anybody offering high interest way above the norm sets up alarm bells and caution. I am remaining positive with LCF and have taken that risk
    Originally posted by Sledger
    The problem is that the return isn't that great for the risk you are taking on.

    You compare this with p2p in your other post, but I'm invested in a number of p2p loans across three platforms it's returns of 10-14%, all of which is secured on property, assets, cars, pawned items etc.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 14th Nov 16, 8:54 PM
    • 11,823 Posts
    • 10,186 Thanks
    jimjames
    A previous comment made here states that LCF record on interest for the last 3 years is sound. I have just received my due interest and assuming this trend continues, after 3 years I will have received 24% back in interest l(less tax) reducing a 100% capital risk loss as stated elsewhere on this forum.. I am remaining positive with LCF and have taken that risk
    Originally posted by Sledger
    You seem to be missing one critical word - namely IF. Have a read of the other similar "investments" on the forum, and you might change your mind about the chances of getting back even 24% of your investment.

    It's always positive until you find you can no longer contact them and have not received any money back.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • zeero
    • By zeero 24th Nov 16, 9:32 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    zeero
    Is the company really a PLC ?

    Financial information on the company available on line for past year:
    London Capital & Finance Plc
    The Old Coach House Eridge Park, Eridge Green, Tunbridge Wells, Kent TN3 9JS,
    Status ACTIVE
    Type Other
    Cash £8
    Total Assets £1,252,404
    Liabilities £-695,006
    Net Worth £40,944
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 25th Nov 16, 12:09 AM
    • 4,741 Posts
    • 4,482 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Answered on the other thread at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71665855#post71665855
    • zeero
    • By zeero 25th Nov 16, 12:24 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    zeero
    thank you ..
    • ricey155
    • By ricey155 27th Jan 17, 8:33 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ricey155
    google searched this post, interesting read if this isn't the best investment oppo then you mention P2P options can you guide us on them ? live thread maybe
    • Eco Miser
    • By Eco Miser 28th Jan 17, 4:39 PM
    • 2,836 Posts
    • 2,626 Thanks
    Eco Miser
    Search this forum for "P2P". There are threads for each of the major platforms.
    Eco Miser
    Saving money for well over half a century
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 22nd Apr 17, 10:01 AM
    • 3,157 Posts
    • 3,595 Thanks
    ColdIron
    You bothered to create an account for that? Are you planning something?
    • masonic
    • By masonic 22nd Apr 17, 10:29 AM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    You bothered to create an account for that? Are you planning something?
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    Not sure what these nonsense posts set out to achieve (possibly just removal of 'new member' status so that they can spam the forum with links), but I always click the spam button when I see them.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 10th Jun 17, 10:28 AM
    • 6,515 Posts
    • 6,929 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    "Last edited by bail-in; Today at 9:58 AM. Reason: mistakes in spelling"

    How about "lack of paragraphs making the slab of text unreadable?

    Have a few free ones;






    HTH
    • badger09
    • By badger09 10th Jun 17, 11:19 AM
    • 4,971 Posts
    • 4,170 Thanks
    badger09
    With the LC&F unregulated minibond unlike a stock market traded bond do not have to provide a detailed highly scrutinised prospectus for the company itself, only for the bond offer. It is unsecured not secured. No FSCS protection.

    All monies are not protected as the website states and their liabilties cancel out their assets re claim secured on LC&F assets. Very difficult to find out any evidence for their claim so far that they have lent 33 million to 150 sme.

    With such low interest rates on loans now it is an extremely competitive market.

    Re 3-8% bond interest London Capital and Finance plc do appear to be paying interest, but could it be being paid from the bondholders capital? Where is the value of having your interest paid if you lose all your unsecured capital?

    The three year track record they have? The Companies House financial return ending 2015 indicated only one loan customer and Michael Thomson, who has been around a long time, was also the director of the company the LC&F lent to.

    From one loan to one company in 2015 to 150 sme loans in 2016, from a few thousand pounds loan to 33 million? Companies dream of that kind of performance.

    The front marketing company for the bond is not part of the company. It is hard to get past them to find details of the lending to SME to raise the interest to bondholders. No evidence for loan side for raising interest for bond repayments. No website, no physical location, employees, no phone, to apply for a sme loan you have to go through the bond marketing company which does not make sense.

    Other companies related to same director, some appear to be quite profitable, many not according to Company House. The 2016 Company House return is financially much better than 2015 retun, but the bond marketing team will not give you any details of the lending side, nor internet searches come up with anything.

    According to Company House LC&F have two employees who were paid £800 each in period ending 2016, the two directors?

    LC&F is registered as a mortgage broker not a lender with FCA but if each loan amount is over a certain fixed sum they can lend without FCA permissions. LC&F have a right to company non-disclosure, unlike traded bonds, but it is in their interest to provide evidence of how they are raising funds to pay the interest to the bondholders.

    Even if a minibond offer does pay interest on the bond, as in collapsed Secured Energy Bond installing solar panels in schools it does not ensure return of capital. In Secured Energy Bond the Australian parent company illegally siphoned off the bondholders capital and went bankrupt. The bondholders lost everything. Good luck to them if it is all genuine. Remember, the interest payments on time do not mean the capital will be returned.

    The beneficiary trusts set up by minibond providers are useless, in my opinion. How would you enforce it if everything went belly-up? Minibonds are highly risky and should only be looked at by sophisticated investors who can afford to lose all their investment capital. But ordinary bank savers are investing in them because of the paltry bank interest rates. Many are disasters waiting to happen.

    No commercial lawyer would recommend investing in them. Having said that some minibond offers have been successful. But they have been offered by highly respected and popular companies with great track records. Always look at the track record, it helps.

    No point going to a IFA about minibonds. They are not interested. Just want to sell you stockmarket funds. Do your homework and if you cannot get satisfactory answers to relevant questions, that is a strong indication to walk away.
    Originally posted by bail-in
    I haven't attempted any punctuation, nor have I corrected the remaining spelling mistakes in your post.

    However, it is now possible to read it, and it really wasn't difficult to press the Return key several times. If you are going to the trouble of posting, please learn to use the Return key, otherwise your efforts are in vain
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th Jun 17, 11:21 AM
    • 88,094 Posts
    • 53,325 Thanks
    dunstonh
    No commercial lawyer would recommend investing in them.
    That is because commercial lawyers do not hold the regulatory permissions to give advice.

    No point going to a IFA about minibonds. They are not interested.Just want to sell you stockmarket funds.
    They are within the regulatory permissions should the IFA think they are suitable. However, for the vast majority of consumers, they are not.

    Why do you think that IFAs just sell stockmarket funds?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • badger09
    • By badger09 10th Jun 17, 11:25 AM
    • 4,971 Posts
    • 4,170 Thanks
    badger09
    @ dunstonh

    Can I as if you would have replied to OP's post before editing?
    Last edited by badger09; 10-06-2017 at 11:41 AM. Reason: spelt dunstonh's name incorrectly
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 10th Jun 17, 11:36 AM
    • 9,139 Posts
    • 5,840 Thanks
    bigadaj
    That is because commercial lawyers do not hold the regulatory permissions to give advice.



    They are within the regulatory permissions should the IFA think they are suitable. However, for the vast majority of consumers, they are not.

    Why do you think that IFAs just sell stockmarket funds?
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Is p2p now in an ifas remit?
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 10th Jun 17, 3:17 PM
    • 2,205 Posts
    • 1,418 Thanks
    Vortigern
    Huge slab of text
    Originally posted by bail-in
    tldr; Avoid LC&F. Run a mile. Your barge pole is too short.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th Jun 17, 4:07 PM
    • 88,094 Posts
    • 53,325 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Is p2p now in an ifas remit?
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    Yes. Nowadays, basically, everything is. However, IFAs can refuse to give advice in certain unregulated areas if they choose. Most areas, they cannot refuse. This is the main reason that so many IFAs have moved to restricted (typically the larger firms and networks where controls of staff are a priority)
    Last edited by dunstonh; 12-06-2017 at 5:04 PM.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
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