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PCM, Plaza West, Reading --> PLEASE ASSIST!
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p3voices
Posts: 9 Forumite
Hi,
I have received a letter in the post telling me that notice was given previously, although I have not received it. My assumption is that some sort of notice was applied to a windshield?
I understand that the private company, PCM (Parking Control Management), has no right to issue tickets. nor collect fees.
The letter states:
- - - - - -
RE: PARKING CHARGE - NOTICE TO KEEPER
To Mr. [SURNAME MISSPELLED], this notice is given to you in line with Schedule 4 of te Protection of Freedoms Act 2013, because the DVLA record shows that you were the registered keeper of the above vehicle on 18/01//2014 at 23:40 when Parking Charge Notice (PCM) PM######### was issued by Parking Control Management UK Ltd (PCM) to the driver of the vehicle.
At that time the vehicle was seen parking in PCM managed parking area: PLAZA WEST and PCN was issued for the following breach of the contractual terms and conditions: "Parked within a restricted area." - The contractual terms and conditions for use of the parking area are clearly signposted on the land in question.
The PCN offered the driver 28 days to pay the parking charge of £100.00. To date the charge has not been paid in full and we do not know the name and current address of the driver of the vehicle. (It is now too late to pay any discounted amount for early payment, which may have been offered to the driver in the original PCN).
Under the Protection of Freedoms Act, Schedule 4, you are now requested to do ONE of the following, by not later than the last day of the period of 28 DAYS beginning with the day after the date on which this notice to keeper is given:
* Pay the outstanding amount offered to the right, if you were the driver, OR
* If you were not the driver, provide us with the full name of the driver of the vehicle and their current address where a notice can be served on them. (You are also REQUIRED to pass this notice to the driver), OR
* Make a representation against / challenge the issue of the PCN
If, at the end of this period of 28 DAYS beginning with the day after the date on which this notice to keeper is given, you have not complied with the above, then you (as registered keeper of the vehicle) will become liable for the charge and we have the right to take recovery action against you.
Please see the reverse of this notice for further information on how to pay or information on how to supply the driver details / or make representation against this notice.
PCM as agent of the landowner, has the right to seek payment of this parking charge.
- - - - - -
My comments:
I was not driving any car that night as I was not in the Reading area during that time (I was out of town). This company also clearly does not have evidence of any driver, nor do they know who drove the car in question.
PCM as somehow done an Internet search and made a guess at who's vehicle is in their photographs (likely from a partial plate identification), but cannot tie any driver to the vehicle. They have also misspelled my name in their correspondence.
I understand from reading previous posts that PCM is not affiliated with the Reading or Thames Valley Police. Upon receiving this letter, I also called the police to understand what this letter was about. I was told, "There is no ticket in our system associated with my car or registration.
I have gone online to view PCM's supposed evidence, and not a few photos late at night, in the rain, of a vehicle similar to mine (same make / model and color), all taken from a distance.
The numbers on the license plate are not visible on all of the photos with one exception. There is a partial plate number, several of the numbers correspond to my car. (Did PCM blur my plates?)
I will add that I have parked on the street several times, usually further down the street as I have often seen broken glass near the private property (it is a known area of vandalism).
If the car in the photos is mine, then PCM has not only not provided me with a first copy of the fine, but has used incorrect dates. If the dates on their fine are incorrect, I would be hesitant to assume the other information is reliable as well.
Because I feel like a victim of some sort of scam, I have visited the area in question and noted that there are no signs showing private property or no parking near this corner. There are "no parking" signs near the parking bays and near a loading dock, which clearly are relevant to the loading dock and/or parking bays. The adjoining road has the remnants of yellow markings but is regularly parked on by people in the area. I noted that the car in their photo is partially on the street (the yellow markings on the road end about 3-4 inches under the car) and partially in the area which I assume is private property. When I mention "partially" in the area I mean the back corner of the car's bumper (maybe 1 foot of space overhanging the property). This assumption is based upon NO SIGN or NOTICES, but instead a shift from asphalt to concrete on the road.
I also spoke with a couple of people on the street who told me they regularly park on the street, but the parking bays in the adjoining parking lot are private property. They also mentioned that locals know that the private property begins where the road asphalt shifts colour (it is not signed at all). Note that the car in the photos is approximately 20-30 meters from any parking bays on this property.
I am concerned about the content of the letter as it states that as owner of my vehicle, I am responsible.
ADVICE I AM SEEKING:
I would like to understand if this is a scam. What are my rights?
Is it advisable to respond to their notice (e.g., will this just fuel the fire?)
If so, I would like some guidance. :A
1. Should I try to fight the charge?
2. If I send a rebuttal letter, will I be harassed by a Bailiff and ultimately end up in court and pay MORE than the original £100?
What are my best options?
A. Am a between a rock & hard place and must pay this fine?
B. Should I pursue the avenue of not being the driver?
C. Should I pursue the avenue that the signing was not present?
I have received a letter in the post telling me that notice was given previously, although I have not received it. My assumption is that some sort of notice was applied to a windshield?
I understand that the private company, PCM (Parking Control Management), has no right to issue tickets. nor collect fees.
The letter states:
- - - - - -
RE: PARKING CHARGE - NOTICE TO KEEPER
To Mr. [SURNAME MISSPELLED], this notice is given to you in line with Schedule 4 of te Protection of Freedoms Act 2013, because the DVLA record shows that you were the registered keeper of the above vehicle on 18/01//2014 at 23:40 when Parking Charge Notice (PCM) PM######### was issued by Parking Control Management UK Ltd (PCM) to the driver of the vehicle.
At that time the vehicle was seen parking in PCM managed parking area: PLAZA WEST and PCN was issued for the following breach of the contractual terms and conditions: "Parked within a restricted area." - The contractual terms and conditions for use of the parking area are clearly signposted on the land in question.
The PCN offered the driver 28 days to pay the parking charge of £100.00. To date the charge has not been paid in full and we do not know the name and current address of the driver of the vehicle. (It is now too late to pay any discounted amount for early payment, which may have been offered to the driver in the original PCN).
Under the Protection of Freedoms Act, Schedule 4, you are now requested to do ONE of the following, by not later than the last day of the period of 28 DAYS beginning with the day after the date on which this notice to keeper is given:
* Pay the outstanding amount offered to the right, if you were the driver, OR
* If you were not the driver, provide us with the full name of the driver of the vehicle and their current address where a notice can be served on them. (You are also REQUIRED to pass this notice to the driver), OR
* Make a representation against / challenge the issue of the PCN
If, at the end of this period of 28 DAYS beginning with the day after the date on which this notice to keeper is given, you have not complied with the above, then you (as registered keeper of the vehicle) will become liable for the charge and we have the right to take recovery action against you.
Please see the reverse of this notice for further information on how to pay or information on how to supply the driver details / or make representation against this notice.
PCM as agent of the landowner, has the right to seek payment of this parking charge.
- - - - - -
My comments:
I was not driving any car that night as I was not in the Reading area during that time (I was out of town). This company also clearly does not have evidence of any driver, nor do they know who drove the car in question.
PCM as somehow done an Internet search and made a guess at who's vehicle is in their photographs (likely from a partial plate identification), but cannot tie any driver to the vehicle. They have also misspelled my name in their correspondence.
I understand from reading previous posts that PCM is not affiliated with the Reading or Thames Valley Police. Upon receiving this letter, I also called the police to understand what this letter was about. I was told, "There is no ticket in our system associated with my car or registration.
I have gone online to view PCM's supposed evidence, and not a few photos late at night, in the rain, of a vehicle similar to mine (same make / model and color), all taken from a distance.
The numbers on the license plate are not visible on all of the photos with one exception. There is a partial plate number, several of the numbers correspond to my car. (Did PCM blur my plates?)
I will add that I have parked on the street several times, usually further down the street as I have often seen broken glass near the private property (it is a known area of vandalism).
If the car in the photos is mine, then PCM has not only not provided me with a first copy of the fine, but has used incorrect dates. If the dates on their fine are incorrect, I would be hesitant to assume the other information is reliable as well.
Because I feel like a victim of some sort of scam, I have visited the area in question and noted that there are no signs showing private property or no parking near this corner. There are "no parking" signs near the parking bays and near a loading dock, which clearly are relevant to the loading dock and/or parking bays. The adjoining road has the remnants of yellow markings but is regularly parked on by people in the area. I noted that the car in their photo is partially on the street (the yellow markings on the road end about 3-4 inches under the car) and partially in the area which I assume is private property. When I mention "partially" in the area I mean the back corner of the car's bumper (maybe 1 foot of space overhanging the property). This assumption is based upon NO SIGN or NOTICES, but instead a shift from asphalt to concrete on the road.
I also spoke with a couple of people on the street who told me they regularly park on the street, but the parking bays in the adjoining parking lot are private property. They also mentioned that locals know that the private property begins where the road asphalt shifts colour (it is not signed at all). Note that the car in the photos is approximately 20-30 meters from any parking bays on this property.
I am concerned about the content of the letter as it states that as owner of my vehicle, I am responsible.
ADVICE I AM SEEKING:
I would like to understand if this is a scam. What are my rights?
Is it advisable to respond to their notice (e.g., will this just fuel the fire?)
If so, I would like some guidance. :A
1. Should I try to fight the charge?
2. If I send a rebuttal letter, will I be harassed by a Bailiff and ultimately end up in court and pay MORE than the original £100?
What are my best options?
A. Am a between a rock & hard place and must pay this fine?
B. Should I pursue the avenue of not being the driver?
C. Should I pursue the avenue that the signing was not present?
0
Comments
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Read the newbies thread in crabmans sticky and all your questions will be answered.0
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Read post one in the sticky thread (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822), it tells you what you need to know as well as giving you a template for the appeal.0
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Thank you for the advice.
I have read the sticky and detailed process posts and will proceed as stated.
I do have two questions which will affect my initial letter of appeal:
1. I never received a windscreen ticket. I have received the NtK in the last week and have begun researching PCM and the situation. I have viewed PCM's photographic evidence and note that: (a) there is a windscreen ticket in one of their photos, and (b) it is raining heavily in the photos (this occurred during the rainstorms in January). I assume it had washed off. Regardless, I have never seen or received a windscreen ticket.
"If it was a windscreen ticket, do not contact the PPC at this point, you must wait for the 'Notice to Keeper' (NtK) to arrive. This should be no sooner than 28 days after the incident and no later than 56 days after it. Theses dates are very important, and you must retain all tickets and letters you receive."
"If it was an ANPR camera incident and the first correspondence you've received is the NtK, this needs to be received within 14 days of the incident; as above, dates very important, retain all paperwork."
2. From PCM's photographic evidence, it shows the time as 23:40pm. My assumption would be the car left the area between 2 and 2.5 hours later. Given the fee / liability statements I have now read, I assume any legal grounds PCM has to issue a fee / fine is based upon "lost income" which I do not believe is relevant in an empty parking area at 2:00am.
"Damages or contractual charge: Parking charges are issued either as a breach of contract (damages) or as a contractually-agreed sum. It is important that you identify which it is, since different rules apply, and therefore your appeal may be worded differently."
"Genuine pre-estimate of loss: Where the parking charge is for damages (and not a contractual charge) the BPA Ltd Code of Practice requires the parking company to be able to demonstrate that the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss."
These are two nuances, but I would like advice on any edits I should make to the template response I have found at the following link: [LINK NOT ALLOWED DUE TO MY NEWBIE STATUS] by the member, "Coupon-Mad".
Thank you for your assistance.
I hope to have my PRESENTATION AGAINST THIS PCN in the next two days.0 -
Based upon these two additional points, would the wording of my initial REPRESENTATION AGAINST THIS PCN change, or should I use standard wording as noted in this forum?0
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I do not believe your points are relevant and any testing of the relevance would only happen at popla (or more likely in court)
if their pictures and paperwork or showing a windscreen ticket (which is likely) then that is a notice to driver (which may have washed away) so what you have now received is an NTK as RK of the vehicle , presumably between day 29 and day 56
I would suggest you stick with the standard template and you should receive a popla code (if they do their job correctly)0 -
Thank you all for your assistance.
I had sent my response as per this forum (standard appeal letter in response to the NtK to begin the process) on 22 Mar 2014 in order to comply with PCM's 25 Mar 2014 deadline via ROYAL MAIL SIGNED FOR service and received the following reply:
"Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN). I have to advice that it is now too late for an appeal ... please pay £100.00 ..."
What can I do about this? :mad:
The letter was post-marked 3 days before the deadline. :mad:
I assume that PCM is choosing to react as if my letter was late!?!
How can I get the POPLA process started?0 -
I wanted to add a little more detail from my response from PCM.
They state:
"The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 states that the registered keeper of the vehicle becomes liable for the unpaid parking charges if the name and address of the driver is not disclosed to the creditor (Parking Control Management) within the allotted period.
You did not provide driver details or challenge the issue of the PCN and therefore were issued with a Keeper Liability Notice. This notice clearly advised you that it was too late to supply the name of the driver or to make representation against the PCN and requested you make payment in order to close the case.
NOTE: I did not receive the windscreen notice but did receive the NtK letter. I responded to this letter on 22Mar14 (Signed For Service) within their time period ending on 25Mar14. Is the above section suggesting a 'second letter' was sent out? If so, I have not received it!
Parking Control Management are not able to accept an appeal and will not enter into any further correspondence regarding this notice. Please therefore make payment of £100.00 within 14 days from the date on this letter in order to conclude the matter."
Please help me with this matter.0 -
I understand that the private company, PCM (Parking Control Management), has no right to issue tickets. nor collect fees.
You are wrong on both counts, they are perfectly entitled to protect the rights of landowners, and prevent trespass on their land.
Where they go wrong is by being greedy. If they wanted £10 for a trangresssion, most people would think that fair and pay up, courts would probably agree, and this sub forum would probably not exist. However, they do not want a tenner, they want £100 and that is a penalty. Penalties are not allowed in consumer contracts.
If they have made a mistake do not worry. There is an appeal system in place (POPLA) which, when you use the magic phrase, lets you off scot free.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Firstly you are never advised to send things signed for to parking companies. Standard first class with free proof of postage is sufficient.
But what's done is done. Go on to the Royal Mail website and download your proof of delivery. Send that with a copy of your proof of postage to them with a letter stating that the appeal was received in time, under s.7 Interpretation Act 1978 as it would have been delivered by the deadline in the ordinary course of post. Insist that they issue you with a POPLA code.
The reason why we advise never to use signed for is because they can reject it and then go and sign for it at a later date, potentially after the appeal has expired. Therefore they can rebut the assumption as they would be able to prove that they haven't received it.
If you can, by your proof of delivery, show that it was received by or on the deadline for appeal then send them a letter as above and also complain to the BPA.0 -
Thanks for that.
I will do so today (in the post on Monday).
I have been reading other areas of the forum.
As I was not the driver, am I still able to report the driver and reset proceedings so that I may go the POPLA route?0
This discussion has been closed.
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