Replacing old electric heating system

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  • michty6
    michty6 Posts: 43 Forumite
    edited 6 December 2012 at 5:02PM
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    Got some figures! From 1st November to 2nd December we used 379 kwh on Standard and 1031 kwh on the 'Off-Peak'. Using the rates I was quoted, by my calculations this is basically £170 for this period. This is high but it gets even worse, as we bought the place on November 1st, it was vacant for about 10 days. So we paid £170 for about 20 days of electricity...

    EDIT: Also found out off-peak is 03:30 - 06:30, 11:00 - 13:00 and 19:45 - 21:45. They did not tell me this before
  • michty6
    michty6 Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Thanks Richie/Happy. It seems that the best option will be to get the best possible electricity set-up and plan we can, for just now, and by the end of the winter we will probably know if this is suitable going forward. Then we can make the decision on any further necessary upgrades and a potential GCH installation in time for next winter.

    I am getting Hydro to get rid of the prepaid meter and put in an actual meter - when they do this I will make sure it is E7. Once this is done (unfortunately my early research suggests I have to wait), I can then compare E7 tariffs that are available...
  • HappyMJ
    HappyMJ Posts: 21,115 Forumite
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    michty6 wrote: »
    Got some figures! From 1st November to 2nd December we used 379 kwh on Standard and 1031 kwh on the 'Off-Peak'. Using the rates I was quoted, by my calculations this is basically £170 for this period. This is high but it gets even worse, as we bought the place on November 1st, it was vacant for about 10 days. So we paid £170 for about 20 days of electricity...

    EDIT: Also found out off-peak is 03:30 - 06:30, 11:00 - 13:00 and 19:45 - 21:45. They did not tell me this before
    That's quite a lot of usage for 20 days. It's a constant 3kW used....Now if you combine the figures to total 1,410kWh then compare to other tariffs such as Ovo and get your electricity for about 12p then your bill would be £169 a month and you can use heating whenever you want and never have to worry about peak/off peak again. Of course a proper E7 tariff with the heaters loaded with heat from midnight to dawn could be cheaper.
    :footie:
    :p Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) :p Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. :p
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    Richie-from-the-Boro Posts: 6,945 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 6 December 2012 at 8:37PM
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    michty6 wrote: »
    Thanks Richie/Happy. It seems that the best option will be to get the best possible electricity set-up and plan we can, for just now, and by the end of the winter we will probably know if this is suitable going forward. Then we can make the decision on any further necessary upgrades and a potential GCH installation in time for next winter.

    I am getting Hydro to get rid of the prepaid meter and put in an actual meter - when they do this I will make sure it is E7. Once this is done (unfortunately my early research suggests I have to wait), I can then compare E7 tariffs that are available...

    All cheapest tariffs have common minimum trilogy requirements :

    - an e-account on-line
    - direct debit
    - regular online submissions of meter readings

    Your CAC ± discounts + VAT ÷ 12 = monthly payment plan, this amount [ish] is paid each month of the year, it smooths out payments and you would normally start the 5 winter months with a comforting credit balance.

    Diligence in submitting monthly [if possible] readings will allow the lowest possible margin of overpayment and effectively enables you to control the payment plan .. .. not their, at on occasions, over exuberant and at times maniacal accounting BOT. This is very particularly the case if you are a new customer in a new dwelling. They will for example have the CAC + inflation costings from the previous owner of your mums flat, but not your mums actual lifestyle use of energy.

    NOTE : """ EDIT: (#22) Also found out off-peak is""" that's not an E7 tariff its an E10 or THTC tariff. Generally, even a competent MSE tariff warrior will have difficulty getting an advantage between providers on the E10 & THTC because the minuscule few who provision that tariff are almost cost identical. The only way to defeat those restrictions is to move away from E10 & THTC into the E7 area. Anticipating this - is also the reason I suggested in #21 a combination storage heater.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • michty6
    michty6 Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Here is what I'm thinking, let me know if this sounds overboard or about right. I want to try and get this done and get it right first time:

    - Modern storage heaters with automatic charge control for all rooms (except the bedrooms, living room).
    - Combination storage heater for the living room (since this is where most of the time is spent during the day).
    - Just normal simple electric heaters for the bedrooms, since these will only be on mostly during the night on the cheap E7 tariff anyway.
    - A new insulated hot water cylinder, with thermostat controls (current one doesn't have these) for the electric immersion heater.

    Any idea of any good companies that could do this sort of thing (in Perthshire, Scotland)?
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
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    michty6 wrote: »
    Here is what I'm thinking, let me know if this sounds overboard or about right. I want to try and get this done and get it right first time:

    - Modern storage heaters with automatic charge control for all rooms (except the bedrooms, living room).
    - Combination storage heater for the living room (since this is where most of the time is spent during the day).
    - Just normal simple electric heaters for the bedrooms, since these will only be on mostly during the night on the cheap E7 tariff anyway.
    - A new insulated hot water cylinder, with thermostat controls (current one doesn't have these) for the electric immersion heater.

    Any idea of any good companies that could do this sort of thing (in Perthshire, Scotland)?

    If it was my home that's the exact decision I would come to, I don't know the layout and □ of your home but a serious dual where you spend your time a serious non-dual where it will warm most rooms, always on internal walls, the second non-dual best placed on the 'other side' of your living room wall if that can be done. At the point of install you have the golden opportunity to fit additional insulation behind the new heaters, a microporous insulation panel being a good investment. Then any switch-able panel types for kitchen / bedrooms / bathrooms etc.

    A new cylinder should be partL direct with two heating elements like this one and should, determined by family size / hot water consumption be at least and bigger than the one you have if it will fit the space, this to take advantage of the cheap 24/365 hot water and avoid having to use the upper twice the price + immersion heater element.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • michty6
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    If it was my home that's the exact decision I would come to, I don't know the layout and □ of your home but a serious dual where you spend your time a serious non-dual where it will warm most rooms, always on internal walls, the second non-dual best placed on the 'other side' of your living room wall if that can be done. At the point of install you have the golden opportunity to fit additional insulation behind the new heaters, a microporous insulation panel being a good investment. Then any switch-able panel types for kitchen / bedrooms / bathrooms etc.

    A new cylinder should be partL direct with two heating elements like this one and should, determined by family size / hot water consumption be at least and bigger than the one you have if it will fit the space, this to take advantage of the cheap 24/365 hot water and avoid having to use the upper twice the price + immersion heater element.

    Haha good. I have spent a lot of time reading things on here and all over the internet trying to come up with the best solution. It seems pretty clear when you figure out that (1) electricity is not cheap and (2) the cheapest electricity available is during the evening that (3) storage heaters + good insulation is the best solution!

    I think I may have to try and call some companies from Canada as I think my Mum is a little unsure to how to go about doing this. I've only myself just got the jargon of storage heaters/combination heaters/fan-assisted myself - mentioning things like 'microporous insulation' to her will just confuse matters more!

    On that subject, one question: what do you mean by 'switch-able panel types'?

    So I have found some local places to call and find quotes for the storage heaters. I just need to get someone to then install them/take out the old ones (any electrician can do this I presume?). With regards to insulation, any idea what a good company to perform this? In fact if you know any contacts for any of this I'd take whatever I can get!
  • michty6
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    Found good info from Energy Saving Trust on Cavity Wall Insulation actually http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/Insulation/Cavity-wall-insulation#2
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
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    """On that subject, one question: what do you mean by 'switch-able panel types'?""" - just means you under your control can switch on an off when needed.

    If you have a big combo heater of a size capable of heating the □ area of the room you live in, preferably with the damper closed for most of the year, and another strategically placed to warm if not heat all other areas with the damper closed for most of the year [keep the bedroom etc doors open] you might well quickly find that your reliance on heating all rooms 24/7 is not necessary. Rather you might find that when cooking in there you just flick on the panel heater, ditto bedrooms, bathrooms, dining room etc, and flick off when you're done. They will still not be chilly, hence the phrase "switch-able".

    You might be surprised how much you don't need 'live permanently on heat' The trick, and there is one, is to put in sufficient 'stored cheap heat & water' for your next 17 hours comfort / need. Any extra luxury of heat has a cost, and is available and radiated at the flick of a switch, when its switched off it has no cost, walls, particularly 'breeze' hold and release heat after 2 or 3 days can and do of themselves become radiators of stored heat.

    NOTE : Panel heater [1] see here ~ or see [2]
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • michty6
    michty6 Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Do you think a bathroom needs a storage heater or just the switch on panel type? I'm inclined to go with the latter...

    PS. Why is there not a company out there specialising in 'non ugly' storage heaters??
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