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Fischer Storage Heaters
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# 1
Hotspot44
Old 28-09-2011, 8:30 PM
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Question Fischer Storage Heaters

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Fischer Future Heat has an adjudication against it for a previous promotional campaign. See the ASA Adjudication

Back to the original post...

Does anyone have any experience of Fischer Storage Heaters? (website is fischer-futureheat.co.uk/fischer-storage-heaters.php They claim these heaters are 40-50% cheaper to run than old night storage systems.

Last edited by MSE Zorica; 12-12-2013 at 1:52 PM.
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# 2
jalexa
Old 28-09-2011, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hotspot44 View Post
Does anyone have any experience of Fischer Storage Heaters?
I'd like to know how much they cost. Any idea?
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# 3
HalloweenJack
Old 28-09-2011, 10:19 PM
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any electric heater is 100% efficient [text deleted by MSE Forum Team].

they seem to be ` modern` storage heaters with thermostats and timers - shut the damper down on minimum boost when not needed and open when it is BUT they also seem (because of mentioning solar pv) also be useable with day rate electric as well.

Last edited by MSE Investigator; 09-07-2013 at 3:40 PM.
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# 4
Richie-from-the-Boro
Old 29-09-2011, 1:56 AM
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Heat propagates in only three ways: convection, conduction and radiation. This material is an insulator [ pumice is one kind of fireclay called Chamotte ] often used in kiln's, for me I don't believe in the assertion that it is an insulator. I certainly don't go with the equal assertion that it saves 50-60% more spend than the conventional clay type heat banks used in standard E7 heaters.

It's fair to say that if the characteristics of chamotte were those of an ' megga ' insulator then one very big saving could be made with E7, that of leakage.. .. .. Cheap night time input not leaked. Daytime while people were at work not leaked. Oh but hang on if they don't leak and are so efficient the room would be cold - wouldn't it ?

Look .. .. the design of the heating element buried within the actual chamotte core means it reaches temp quicker, but well you .. .. know, you are in bed asleep at the time so what difference if it heats up quicker. I haven't looked at this since last xmas maybe the tech has moved - I'll do a gooooogly job tomorrow in case its improved.
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# 5
grahamc2003
Old 29-09-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotspot44 View Post
Does anyone have any experience of Fischer Storage Heaters? (website is fischer-futureheat.co.uk/fischer-storage-heaters.php They claim these heaters are 40-50% cheaper to run than old night storage systems.

They are '50% cheaper to run' because they are only half the power of night storage heaters '! The difference is they'd be on for twice as long.

[text deleted by MSE Forum Team]. The changes they describe between poor 'night storage heaters' and their heaters is simply to do with the position of the heaters in the room - the air circulatoion and radiant heat will be pretty much the same for both if they were both in the same position!

Although they are 'compatible' witrh e7, they plug into the ring main (hence why they are low powered. So, depending on your wiring, they may use cheap electricity at night (but equally they may use full price at night), but certainly, in the daytime, when they are on (which they will be), then they'll use full price electricity. They will be very expensive to run [text deleted by MSE Forum Team].

Last edited by MSE Investigator; 09-07-2013 at 3:41 PM.
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# 6
jalexa
Old 29-09-2011, 11:03 AM
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Default The price please...

I'm reserving judgement until the OP returns with the price. AFAIAA, not readily available anywhere online, but I speculate that the OP might know, or know a man who does.

On a specific technical issue the output of a modern "UK traditional" storage radiator is "dampered" when charging and when hot, as a mitigation against early heat loss, a feature which cannot be present in the "Fischer" as it is designed to be 50% energised during day-rate times and specifically makes a feature of "radiant" output.

Nevertheless I welcome "imaginative" design approaches to improving off-peak heating as a method. The brochure is certainly "creative", but not technically informative. Perhaps that is the "imaginative" feature.

Last edited by jalexa; 29-09-2011 at 8:53 PM.
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# 7
peacock17
Old 03-10-2011, 7:24 PM
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I have used the Fischer heaters for the past year. When they refer to 40% reduction in energy input it is because the heat distributed from the heater into the room is more efficient. To prove that point, their thermostatic control is wall mounted in the room away from the radiator and it controls the room temperature very well. Unlike my old radiator which had a control on the heater, the Fischer heater is proving a better source of heat in my living room, keeping me warm especially in the evenings, at no extra cost. It also makes use of Economy 7 at night thereby making it cheaper to run. As I'm using less units now, even though some of them are at a higher rate in the day, it still is cheaper to run than my old storage heaters. As far as heating the room more efficently, I can say they work out more economical and better comfort than my old night storage heaters. I am very satisfied with them. So I am totally convinced that the distribution of the heat from the heater into the room is more important than simply the amount of heat you generate at the radiator. It makes complete sense
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# 8
peacock17
Old 03-10-2011, 7:38 PM
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Default Speaking of "often misleading nonsense"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamc2003 View Post
They are '50% cheaper to run' because they are only half the power of night storage heaters '! The difference is they'd be on for twice as long.

[text deleted by MSE Forum Team]. The changes they describe between poor 'night storage heaters' and their heaters is simply to do with the position of the heaters in the room - the air circulatoion and radiant heat will be pretty much the same for both if they were both in the same position!

Although they are 'compatible' witrh e7, they plug into the ring main (hence why they are low powered. So, depending on your wiring, they may use cheap electricity at night (but equally they may use full price at night), but certainly, in the daytime, when they are on (which they will be), then they'll use full price electricity. They will be very expensive to run [text deleted by MSE Forum Team].
You clearly have no idea how this system works. The night storage heaters is a RADIANT heater and it radiates even on the opposite side, so if you install it on an external wall you lose some of the heat on the outside wall, hence you can only really put them on internal walls, unlike the Fischer heaters which convect by taking the cold air from the floor and heating THROUGH the radiator, hence the design of the flutes. So thereby delivering every kW of heat into the room more efficently and the temperature is measured away from the radiator. It's simple physics. Oh and also, efficiency is about USING less rather than the price you buy your energy at and I know which one saves you money in the long run. If efficiency wasn't important, why aren't we still using solid fuel central heating systems? There's a lot to be said for the technological design of their radiators.

Last edited by MSE Investigator; 24-07-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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# 9
jalexa
Old 03-10-2011, 7:53 PM
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Default The price please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacock17 View Post
I have used the Fischer heaters for the past year
Good, perhaps you can post some prices.

I have seen prices online for (similar) Sueka radiators. Pricey, though your experience is probably consistent with my posted "nevertheless I welcome "imaginative" design approaches to improving off-peak heating as a method".

Last edited by jalexa; 03-10-2011 at 8:01 PM.
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# 10
peacock17
Old 03-10-2011, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-from-the-Boro View Post
Heat propagates in only three ways: convection, conduction and radiation. This material is an insulator [ pumice is one kind of fireclay called Chamotte ] often used in kiln's, for me I don't believe in the assertion that it is an insulator. I certainly don't go with the equal assertion that it saves 50-60% more spend than the conventional clay type heat banks used in standard E7 heaters.

It's fair to say that if the characteristics of chamotte were those of an ' megga ' insulator then one very big saving could be made with E7, that of leakage.. .. .. Cheap night time input not leaked. Daytime while people were at work not leaked. Oh but hang on if they don't leak and are so efficient the room would be cold - wouldn't it ?

Look .. .. the design of the heating element buried within the actual chamotte core means it reaches temp quicker, but well you .. .. know, you are in bed asleep at the time so what difference if it heats up quicker. I haven't looked at this since last xmas maybe the tech has moved - I'll do a gooooogly job tomorrow in case its improved.
Their information says that the construction of the chamotte is mixed with 45% aluminium oxide which heats up quickly, however the heat input to the chamotte is controlled by a room thermostat so it does not heat the room up excessively during the night, it keeps the room at a lower temperature during the night and brings the room temperature up in the morning using Economy 7 thereby making it cheaper to run. This way it allows the heating to be controlled in the room when you need it, especially in the evenings. Something you could never achieve with the old night storage heaters. The night storage heaters waste a lot of their heat between the hours of 3am to 7am when nobody's using the room, surely that doesn't make sense. With the rising energy prices, no one can afford to waste energy like that.
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# 11
peacock17
Old 03-10-2011, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexa View Post
Good, perhaps you can post some prices.

I have seen prices online for (similar) Sueka radiators. Pricey, though your experience is probably consistent with my posted "nevertheless I welcome "imaginative" design approaches to improving off-peak heating as a method".
I was only mentioning my experience of these heaters, having used both. And I have been very happy with the comfort and value I've had having paid for them. As far as prices, perhaps you can contact the company.
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# 12
jalexa
Old 03-10-2011, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacock17 View Post
It also makes use of Economy 7 at night...
What % of your annual electricity consumption is at E7 "cheap rate"?
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# 13
Richie-from-the-Boro
Old 03-10-2011, 9:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacock17 View Post
Their information says that the construction of the chamotte is mixed with 45% aluminium oxide which heats up quickly, however the heat input to the chamotte is controlled by a room thermostat so it does not heat the room up excessively during the night, it keeps the room at a lower temperature during the night and brings the room temperature up in the morning using Economy 7 thereby making it cheaper to run. This way it allows the heating to be controlled in the room when you need it, especially in the evenings. Something you could never achieve with the old night storage heaters. The night storage heaters waste a lot of their heat between the hours of 3am to 7am when nobody's using the room, surely that doesn't make sense. With the rising energy prices, no one can afford to waste energy like that.
Thanks peacock17, I'm a bit confused though, can you explain how it will save me 50-60% electricity like their pdf says please.
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# 14
Richie-from-the-Boro
Old 03-10-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacock17 View Post
You clearly have no idea how this system works. The night storage heaters is a RADIANT heater and it radiates even on the opposite side, so if you install it on an external wall you lose some of the heat on the outside wall, hence you can only really put them on internal walls, unlike the Fischer heaters which convect by taking the cold air from the floor and heating THROUGH the radiator, hence the design of the flutes. So thereby delivering every kW of heat into the room more efficiently and the temperature is measured away from the radiator. It's simple physics. Oh and also, efficiency is about USING less rather than the price you buy your energy at and I know which one saves you money in the long run. If efficiency wasn't important, why aren't we still using solid fuel central heating systems? There's a lot to be said for the technological design of their radiators.
no .. .. this is radiant or this my friend ! - I think you mean convective ! or storage convective like one of these !

Last edited by Richie-from-the-Boro; 03-10-2011 at 11:49 PM. Reason: more info
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# 15
broomas
Old 04-10-2011, 12:59 PM
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Default Heating system with storage

Hi, Sorry to hijack this thread but I felt some clarification is needed.
The heaters are in fact Radiators in that they radiate heat.
If you hold your hand 10 cm from the front of the heater surely you can feel the heat being radiated?
The ROOM though is being heated through CONVECTION as the air being drawn up is heated by RADIATION and then rises to circulate in the room.
Most modern radiators also use this system.
With Solar panels the heaters can store the heat during the day cheaply and release at night when most people are less active.
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# 16
peacock17
Old 04-10-2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexa View Post
What % of your annual electricity consumption is at E7 "cheap rate"?
approximately 45-50%
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# 17
peacock17
Old 04-10-2011, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broomas View Post
Hi, Sorry to hijack this thread but I felt some clarification is needed.
The heaters are in fact Radiators in that they radiate heat.
If you hold your hand 10 cm from the front of the heater surely you can feel the heat being radiated?
The ROOM though is being heated through CONVECTION as the air being drawn up is heated by RADIATION and then rises to circulate in the room.
Most modern radiators also use this system.
With Solar panels the heaters can store the heat during the day cheaply and release at night when most people are less active.
yes quite right you do get radiant heat, however unlike a night storage heater the percentage of convected heat is higher and that is why the Fischer heaters have a wireless room thermostat which measures the temperature of the room AWAY from the radiators
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# 18
peacock17
Old 04-10-2011, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie-from-the-Boro View Post
Thanks peacock17, I'm a bit confused though, can you explain how it will save me 50-60% electricity like their pdf says please.
i'm a bit confused too, there is no pdf. and information on there website makes no such claims
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# 19
Richie-from-the-Boro
Old 05-10-2011, 1:33 AM
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[text deleted by MSE Forum Team]

Our low input storage heaters can reduce the energy intake by 50%, compared to the old night storage heaters

[text deleted by MSE Forum Team]

Your defence of their product as a user is fine with me, but its based on the same drivel they post - you read - you then reassert with no supporting evidence whatsoever. BTW I assume from the figure [s] of 45/50% split you are retired and at home all day with a room whole house temp of 20C. If your not in the house on an all day basis there is something wrong with your E7 usage.

Last edited by MSE Investigator; 24-07-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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# 20
HalloweenJack
Old 05-10-2011, 10:32 AM
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how much did you pay for your peacock?
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