Your Co-Op Visa Electron is now a Visa Debit: alternatives for flight bookings?

jamesbrownontheroad · 30 September 2010 at 5:31PM

Hello everyone.

Perhaps I missed an MSE discussion or news article on this elsewhere, but it seems that Co-Operative Bank Visa Electron card holders (i.e. quite a lot of folk with basic accounts for booking FlyBe and Easyjet flights without fees) are about to get stung by new debit card fees.

While trying to book a FlyBe flight this afternoon, my Visa Electron card was repeatedly declined, because it was not recognised as Visa Electron. I've held this card since March 2009, and it's valid until March 2012. Nothing has changed, no new card has been issued to me, and it's still a Visa Electron. I last used it about two weeks ago with FlyBe and it was accepted without a hitch as a (fee-free) Visa Electron.

However, as part of their suspension of new Visa Electron card accounts, it seems that existing Visa Electron cardholders with Co-Op are now having their cards reclassified as Visa Debit, which means fees with most airlines. As far as the airline sees it, the sixteen digit card number is now recognised as a Visa Debit, not Visa Electron.

I already knew that Visa Electrons were being phased out, but can anyone point me in the direction of an alternative?

Thanks

zzzLazyDaisy · 30 September 2010 at 5:34PM

I have a Halifax Easycash account which has a visa electron card. I used it to book a flight in August and it was definitely okay then.

tightarsey · 8 October 2010 at 5:44PM

Hi James,
Its being mentioned on zdnet.co.uk
flybe.com online bookings: Visa Electron Cards are now 'reclassified' as Visa Debit to force £9 additional fee.
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/apples-are-not-the-only-fruit-windows-are-for-gazing-out-of-not-at-10014376/visa-electron-cards-are-now-reclassified-as-visa-debit-to-force-charges-10020712/

Have spoken to Visa Card Services Directly today, Visa Electron payment method is NOT being phased out by Visa. Its the banks themselves such as Cooperative/Smile that have decided to no longer issue Visa Electron Cards. According to Cooperative all new cards now issued are Visa Debit. Companies such has HBOS are continuing to issue Visa Electron.

Cooperative can't simply reclassify a Visa Electron Card as a Visa Debit Card - this requires a change to their terms and conditions, which certainly hasn't been sent out - so they are in breach of regulatory controls.

Its seems Cooperative have though - by changing their backend system by reassigning the bin number to existing cards so that cards starting 4508 are reclassified as 'Visa Debit' rather than 'Visa Electron' (which is what has happened according to flybe.com),

This should not apply to existing Visa Electron Card holder of Cooperative/Smile, only newly issued card with a 'Visa Debit' logo, until you card expires.

An initial complaint has been filed with the financial ombudsman in this regard, and hopefully will mean that any Visa Electron Card transactions which have been financially disadvantaged should be refundable.

Phoning flybe.com, (which took 22 minutes to get answered @10p a minute, this afternoon), were also unhelpful - why would they be - they are making £9 per flight from the reclassification of Visa Electron to Visa Debit. They are also in breach of advertising standards, as all Visa Electron cards going through there payment systems have been reclassified to Visa Debit, so its physical impossible to purchase the flight at the advertised price, without incurring a £9 fee.

I gave flybe.com the Smile's phone number 01614771927 to confirm cards starting 4508 are 'Visa Electron', which they refused to call.
(This number is on their contact us page, smile.co.uk)
But they did send this email:

Thank you for contacting the Technical Support Desk at Flybe.
Please note that this card had been re-classified as a Visa Debit Card and is no longer classed as a Visa Electron Card.
This has been confirmed to us from our Card Company as we do get regular updates with regards to the bin ranges of cards and in view of this the charges we have made on-line are correct and there would be no refund due.
I hope this helps in answering your query.

The best approach is to send a formal complaint in writing to Cooperative/Smile, if you send a secure message this will not help, as you will be asked to put it in writing, (its a staller to prevent too many complaints), you need to stalemate the issue to take the matter to the financial ombudsman, but they will open an initial complaint, which you can then follow up.
The reference for the complaint with the financial ombudsman is 9877130, quote this in correspondence, as everyone effected can be linked. Financial Services Ombudsman 0207 964 0500. Email: [EMAIL="complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk"]complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk[/EMAIL]

Write to:
smilecustomer feedback
4th Floor
Miller St
Manchester
M60 0AL
So much for Ethical Bank?

If you have been affected by this post a reply/(& make a complaint).

tightarsey · 8 October 2010 at 9:11PM

A bit more digging...

In phasing out Visa Electron Cards - The problem seems to occur from banks such as the Cooperative Bank's poor decision to keep the same card number rage (starting 4508-Visa Electron), and instead reclassifying this range of cards as Visa Debit rather than Visa Electron, by a change to its 'bin number type', how it is classed to retailers:Electron,Debit,Credit etc. Without really realising the full consequences for existing card holders. The other option - Issuing new card numbers would have caused problems with Annual automatic payments such as the AA.

The whole thing was poor judgement by Co-op and has caused some companies to still classify the card as Electron and some as Visa Debit, and thus Cooperative bank's customers are incurring charges of £9 per flight using their existing Electron card on sites such as flybe.com. flybe.com are also refusing to refund this amount, or provide manual discount via phone. A phone call to the financial ombudsman stated today, that if Customer's had been disadvantaged (ie. financial losses) by the Visa branding anomaly, they would be very interested in taking up the case.

tightarsey · 10 October 2010 at 9:43AM

News: Co-op Travel business to merge with Thomas Cook

Is it ‘coincidental’ that Cooperative Bank/Smile are phasing out Visa Electron Cards for its customers?.

Visa Electron is the one form of payment related to the travel industry which has the lowest fees related to booking flights, hotel accommodation and car hire.

Note, Visa itself is not phasing out the Visa Electron Card, this Branding is used throughout Europe.

Cooperative are using their positions in banking and travel to force higher transaction charges on its customers, which they will be in a position to take advantage of through their Cooperative travel arm.

The additional transaction fees of booking 2 flights on flybe.com, between a paying via a Visa Electron Card compared to a Visa Debit Card is £18.

This change has been forced on existing customers, by
reclassifying the bin number (first 4 digits - 4508) of existing issued Cooperative/Smile Visa Electron Cards with the fees related to Visa Debit Cards (4988-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx), so both Cooperative Cards are recognized by retailers as ‘Visa Debit’.

No notification has been given to existing customers of this
change though their terms and conditions. This is a clear breach of regulatory rules.

Here is a copy of a formal complaint I sent to Smile.

Formal Complaint.

As a consumer/Smile customer – I rely on notification on any changes to my bank account via a change to the terms and conditions.

If I have a Cooperative/Smile bank card which says Visa Electron on it, and I select Visa Electron from the drop-down box on a online website, I expect the fees incurred to relate to a Visa Electron card transaction fee, not a Visa Debit card transaction fee, and this is my complaint – I don’t care or need to know how this will be processed by Cooperative/Smile but expect this to match the existing card issued to me.

For Cooperative/Smile to ‘reclassify’ existing issued Visa Electron cards as Visa Debit cards is a change to terms and conditions, to which I have not being given 30 days notice.

I also do not accept Smile can reclassify an existing Visa Electron issued card as now been processed as a Visa Debit card – it’s a Visa Electron card till it expires, under the Visa transaction rules, whats to stop it being classified as a Visa Credit Card for fee purposes?

This is a breach of regulatory rules, there has been no notification in the terms and conditions to this effect and breaches Visa brand descriptions.

I attempted to use this card to pay for a flight online with
flybe.com. flybe.com terms state that flights paid with Visa Electron Card the fee is 0.00, flights paid with Visa Debit Cards the fee is 4.50 each way,per person. Two People, 2 flights, one transaction = a £18 Visa Debit Charge.

On submitting the transaction 'it stated the Electron card (starting 4508) is not recognised as a Visa Electron Card, and to continue you will incur an additional charge of £18, as the card has been recognised as Visa Debit Card (based on the bin number issued by Cooperative)

I emailed flybe.com and received this reply:

Thank you for contacting the Technical Support Desk at Flybe. Please note that this card had been re-classified as a Visa Debit Card and is no longer classed as a Visa Electron Card.This has been confirmed to us from our Card Company as we do get regular updates with regards to the bin ranges of cards and in view of this the charges we have made on-line are correct and there would be no refund due. I hope this helps in answering your query.

If Smile are phasing out new Visa Electron Cards this should not affect existing customers of Visa Electron until the card issued expires. Visa itself is not phasing out Electron Cards. Existing Smile cards starting 4508, must still be processed as Electron payments under Visa rules- this is not happening.
They are being processed by card services based on the bin number issued for these cards as Visa Debit and Customers are being financial disadvantaged.

End of Complaint

apt · 10 October 2010 at 10:24AM

'Is it ‘coincidental’ that Cooperative Bank/Smile are phasing out Visa Electron Cards for its customers?'

Yes, because the switch away from VISA electron began and was announced months ago.

jamesbrownontheroad · 10 October 2010 at 10:40AM

apt wrote: »

Yes, because the switch away from VISA electron began and was announced months ago.

For new customers only. No mention was made of shifting existing card holders to another card type.

tightarsey · 10 October 2010 at 12:22PM

apt wrote: »

'Is it ‘coincidental’ that Cooperative Bank/Smile are phasing out Visa Electron Cards for its customers?'

Yes, because the switch away from VISA electron began and was announced months ago.

And the Merger between Cooperative Travel Business and Thomas Cook was not planned months ago? ie. 'coincidental'

debutyou · 11 October 2010 at 4:53PM

READ THIS THREAD!: If you have a COOPERATIVE or SMILE Visa ELECTRON Card (as marked 'Electron' on card) Changes for existing customers mean you are being financially disadvantaged by the card being reclassified 'Visa Debit', it could cost you upto £9 in transaction charges, when booking flights. DON'T ACCEPT IT COMPLAIN. You have an Electron card, it should incur charges related to an Electron Card - it doesn't. Its the Bank's mistake - not the retailer - don't be fobbed off.

StuieUK34 · 13 October 2010 at 10:29AM

How about this:
I just booked a hire car through Netflights.com...
I've had my Co-Op VISA ELECTRON card for over a year, but had it changed to the VISA Debit card about 3 weeks ago which i'm cool with....
When trying to book the hire car, the website kept saying that the card was invalid when selecting - VISA DEBIT...
So i selected VISA ELECTRON and the payment went through ??????????

How do you explain that!!!! Am slightly worried now as the hire car booked is for use with DOLLAR in Las Vegas, i know they accept VISA Debit cards for there security deposit, but the above and given the card begins with 4508 is making me think its still an electron card, just with the word DEBIT on the front ?? which means Dollar may not accepy my card ?
oh crumbs!!

tightarsey · 14 October 2010 at 12:53PM

StuieUK34 wrote: »

How do you explain that!!!! (

Retailers get regular update of Bin Ranges for Cards (see the email reply from flybe.com above), companies such as flybe.com have to be extremely accurate regarding the 'card type', classified by its bin number, ie. whether it is a Visa Credit, Visa Debit (formally Visa Delta branding), and Visa Electron - but they get this information from the card processing company, who get it from Cooperative.

Cooperative issued Cards starting 4508, were always Visa Electron Cards.
Cooperative issued Cards starting 4988, were Visa Debit / formally branded Visa Delta.

So retailers regularly update their bin tables, reflecting any changes - the card processing company for the rental firm hasn't done this yet and is using the old data so the card is recognised as Visa Electron, its previous bin type. Its complicated by the fact that the website itself might do the check, or can be part of the card processing.

Currently Aer Lingus recognised cards 4508 as Visa Debit - now incurring charges, selecting Visa Electron, the card number is mark 'Not recognised'
Capitalone , the card has to be registered as Visa Debit, in order to act as payment for online accounts.

Cooperative stupidly, started issuing new Visa logo (with Electron Branding removed) 'Debit' Cards as replacements for the Visa Electron Card, stating they were phasing out Visa Electron Cards.

Rather than issue these new cards with 4988 number (Visa Debit) they kept the existing numbers for customers to save upsetting Annual automated payments at the AA etc - BIG MISTAKE.

When Cooperative switched the bin range of cards starting 4508 to Visa Debit earlier this month, they didn't take into account existing customers with Visa Electron cards, that actually want the card to work as a Visa Electron card till it expires.

It has meant all existing Cooperative Customers with a Visa Electron Branded Card have to pay charges related to Visa Debit Cards - £18 in the case of two flights on flybe.com

The upside of the card been classed as Visa Debit it is accepted at more places, i.e Tesco, but this might not last for long, because Cooperative will have to update the bin range back so that cards starting 4508 is still classed as Visa Electron, and reissue new card with Visa logo (Visa Debit cards) starting 4988.

Your Co-Op Visa Electron is now a Visa Debit: alternatives for flight bookings?

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