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  • FIRST POST
    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 11th Jul 10, 11:33 AM
    • 168Posts
    • 454Thanks
    coco1277
    Toothfairy Finance
    • #1
    • 11th Jul 10, 11:33 AM
    Toothfairy Finance 11th Jul 10 at 11:33 AM
    Hi , I am after any advice which could be given regarding my husbands situation with these sharks .

    He took out a payday loan at end of April needed to find a loan fast as our dog needed an emergency operation .
    He borrowed £300 which was to be repaid in 4 weeks time but unfortunatley he couldnt pay it as got laid off from work .

    Now within these few weeks the debt has been passed to Northern Debt Recovery who have been nasty , threatening and not willing to help . I offered to pay £50 per month and this is the email they have sent below please bear in mind this was a loan of £300.

    In response to your email, we will accept £50 per month. Can we assume that you will make the first payment tomorrow, Monday 12th July 2010?

    P.S Also when looking for information on Northern debt recovery its not bringing anything up at all apart from collections for Orange . The letter I received from Northern Debt Recovery is showing the same address as the company the loan was took out with Toothfairy Finance ? with company no 6956396 but cant find anything on this
    The present outstanding balance is £974 with a further £54 due to be added on 22nd July.

    You must appreciate that interest is charged at £9 per week per £100 borrowed, which with a loan of £300 means interest of £108 per month. This is quite clearly set out in the terms and conditions that you double-digitally signed when making your application. This means that you will be paying £50 per month for a loan that increases by £108 per month.

    At this stage we are not in a position to offer any settlement figure because we have not yet seen any proof of willingness to pay on your behalf. Once you start making regular payments and hopefully increases your monthly amounts, we may well be in a position to offer a final figure of payment

    Is there anything I can do about this surely these charges are not legal on a £300 loan . I am at my wits end about this and dont know what steps to take next. As they say if he doesnt pay they will send baliffs to all addresses held on file .

    Any advice at all welcome , sorry for the long post .

    P.S Also on the letter I received from Northern Debt Recovery it has the same address as the loan comapny the loan was took out with Toothfairy Finance and a company no : 6956396 but when searching on Google cant finad anything at all on Northern debt recovery apart from they are collections for orange ?????
    I am a little confused and dont think this letter is actually from a debt collection agency
    Last edited by coco1277; 11-07-2010 at 11:55 AM. Reason: more info
Page 1
  • DizzleUK
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:08 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:08 PM
    Sadly ToothFairy are one of the worst when it comes to pay day loans. If it has been passed to a debt collection agency then there shouldn't be any further interest added.

    BEFORE you pay them any money at all, you need to get confirmation of a final balance that needs to be repaid. You need it in writing (by email is fine) that the repayment agreement you are entering into what the amount is that should be repaid, what timescale you both expect it to conclude by and that the balance will not increase further so long as you stick to the arrangement.

    Again, do not pay them anything until you know what is expected from you.

    They will be very nasty and use all sorts of scare tactics to get you into paying. DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE keep all contact in writing.

    If they don't want to play ball, make it quite clear to them that you WANT them to take you to court. It will not get that far as they'll have to explain their underhand actions to a judge.
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 11th Jul 10, 12:14 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    coco1277
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:14 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:14 PM
    Thanks Dizzle , He has told them he wont speak to them on phone and only deal with them by email or writing so that he has everything in writing for his records .

    I will email them and do as you state.
    I find it strange for them to email him at 9.30am on a sunday morning ?
    Thank you
  • DizzleUK
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:26 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:26 PM
    Have they got a current balance for you?

    The general concensus with TF is to report them to your local Trading Standards office.

    Just remember they will not send bailiffs round (without going to court first) and the Police will not get involved.

    Keep a copy of everything they send you. Obviously you borrowed so have to pay something, but this should be not a penny more than the amount you originally agreed to pay.

    If they keep phoning you, a good tactic (though I can't personally recommend doing so as it's probably wrong so you do so with your own conscience) is to put the phone up to your smoke alarm and press the test button.
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 11th Jul 10, 12:54 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    coco1277
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:54 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 10, 12:54 PM
    They have emailed again as the email they sent me was actually from a toothfairy email account so I asked them if they were the same people pretending to be a debt collection agency the reply was below . As for the outstanding balance they say £974 with a further £54 to be added on 22nd July I only borrowed £300 .

    We work in very close liaison with Toothfairy Finance and in cases where offers are below realistic paybacks, we need to pass them by Toothfairy before they can be accepted. This is what happened in your case and they decided to forward the email on to you.

    You are dealing with Northern Debt Recovery and it is our job to obtain payments for loans in a realistic manner before passing on to bailiff company representatives.

    In your case, we are trying to be as accommodating as possible and we expect payment, as you have stated on Friday 16th July.

    Establish a pattern of payment and we will consider a reduction in amounts due to enable settlement as soon as possible. Pay more than £50 on 16th July and we may be able to arrive at a realistic figure immediately thereafter.
  • DizzleUK
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 10, 2:02 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 10, 2:02 PM
    Ignore the bit about the bailiffs company. This is most likely an external debt collection agency that can also act as bailiffs IF APPOINTED BY A COUNTY COURT ONLY.

    The amount they are asking is rediculous! Draft them another email, in as formal a tone as you can make it. The below is what I would send them if I were in your situation, you may use/edit/ignore it at your pleasure......

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Thank you for your most recent communication regarding my account #000000000.

    I sincerely wish to settle this matter as quickly as possible, however, due to the seriousness of the situation and my current financial position to which I have already advised you of, I have sought advice on how best to resolve this.

    It has been suggested to me that the amount you are now requesting in such a short space of time is leaning towards extortion, and as I have not entered into a formal agreement to pay any amount other than the original £XXX.XX (the original loan plus the interest had you paid on time) this is the only amount I am willing to pay and will not be bullied, threatened or otherwise coerced into paying more than this.

    Subject to your written agreement, I offer to pay this amount in monthly instalments of £XX.XX with the first payment being on [insert date] and subsequent payments being made on [insert day of month]. By my calculations, this means the account would be settled on [insert date].

    Please be aware that I will only make payments to you by in-bank deposit, so I therefore request that you provide me with your bank account number and sort code so I can effect these payments.

    No monies will be paid to you until such time as a written repayment agreement is put in place. I cannot allow payments to be made in the scenario you outlined in your last communication whereby you can alter the total amount to be repaid at your discretion.

    If you are unwilling to reconsider your position and agree to enter into an agreement for the total amount of [insert amount again] then please confirm that in writing, outlining your reasons for declining this offer. Subsequently, please immediately apply to the County Court to have this matter heard by a County Court Judge, whereby I will have the summons transferred to my local County Court where I will attend with copies of all communications received from yourselves and any associated agents and ask you to explain how you arrive at the figure you state I currently owe.

    Whilst I wait for the the court papers to arrive, I will be reporting you to my local Trading Standards office, the Financial Ombudsman Service, BBC Watchdog, the Local and National Press regarding this matter.

    I would, however, prefer to settle this matter quickly and amicably without further action on either side.

    I look forward to your considered reply,

    Yours sincerely,

    [Name]

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Amend and delete anything in red and good luck!
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 11th Jul 10, 2:34 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    coco1277
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 10, 2:34 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 10, 2:34 PM
    Thank you very much Dizzle what a great help you have been , I shall send that to them soon , bit scared really lol but lets see what they come back with.
    • iolanthe07
    • By iolanthe07 11th Jul 10, 3:09 PM
    • 4,927 Posts
    • 4,642 Thanks
    iolanthe07
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 10, 3:09 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 10, 3:09 PM
    Why didn't you talk to the vet first? Ours does interest free loans for expensive operations.
    I used to think that good grammar is important, but now I know that good wine is importanter.
    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 11th Jul 10, 3:11 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    coco1277
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 10, 3:11 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 10, 3:11 PM
    Well my vet doesnt !
    As soon as I took dog in the first thing vet asked was how are you paying ? I needed the cash quickly .
  • DizzleUK
    Thank you very much Dizzle what a great help you have been , I shall send that to them soon , bit scared really lol but lets see what they come back with.
    Originally posted by coco1277
    No problem.

    I can't offer any sort of guarantee with that letter and there is a very very small chance they will go to court. The letter is basically to call their bluff and show you are not put off by their usual scare tactics.

    If they come back with a compromise that YOU are happy with then by all means take it.

    Tooth Fairy loans generally target the university student market and the NUS have voiced their concerns by all accounts. You wouldn't be the first to report them to the authorities and you wouldn't be the last either.

    Payday loans are all well and good if you can definitely afford to pay them back on schedule, it's when the payments aren't made that the !!!! hits the fan.

    To be fair, some are far better than others when it comes to sorting out the problem customers. TF are high up on the list of the worst though.

    They will probably reply to you saying no deal. If that is the case, thank them for their communication, express your disappointment. Tell them that your offer will remain open for their consideration, otherwise you look forward to meeting them in person on the due court date.

    After that, answer all further correspondence like a broken record of "Thank you for your most recent email, I refer you to my last. Yours sincerely." until either they change their minds or pass you on to a new company. If the latter happens, forward them your previous emails (and TF's) and tell them that the offer of repayment still stands.

    DON'T get into a slanging match with them. If they try to bait you, remain polite and professional.
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

  • Mismatched
    Thank you so much for the advice posted here. I am dealing with TF myself at present, similar situation, needed the money badly, borrowed £100, lost my job. The charges are being piled on, they tell me i currently owe £540 for a loan that would have been (with interest) £132 paid on time.

    My account is also currently in the hands of Nothern debt recovery and speaking to them on the phone this morning to inform them i was seeking advice from CCCS to sort out my debts to them and other creditors, i received a very frosty response. They told me that no debt management sceme they ahd ever heard of was satisfactory to them and such cases nearly always went to court. Having spoken to CCCS I beleive this is not the case, but I am still unsure as to where i stand if it does go to court.

    I have drawn up a debt management plan, including this debt with CCCS, and have a copy of my financial statement and a letter which i have been told to photocopy and send with a token payment to all my creditors, including them. They told me this was unacceptable and further charges would follow. If i do go to court can the court send baliffs round if i have drawn up a budget, offered payment and obviously can't afford to meet their demands for repayment?

    Having read this i will be switching all content to email as if they are as unpleasant in email as they are on the phone, i will be reporting them to anyone who will listen, especially the people you have suggested.

    Thank you so much again
  • DizzleUK
    As I mentioned, if *I* were in this situation with this company I would WANT them to take me to court. Their horrendous charges and interest would be very difficult for them to explain in court.

    CCCS are one of the best companies out there.

    The BS spouted about CCCS cases being unsatisfactory to them and that most cases end up in court is total nonsense and just plain scare tactics.

    If you've made them a reasonable offer through a company like CCCS and they refuse it, this will only strenghten your case if it ever went to court (unlikely).

    Their main target is the student population who whilst intelligent, are not always the best with money, so they use these tactics to get as many to pay up through fear rather than legal enforcement.

    Stick to your guns and don't fret.

    Oh, and if you ever end up in court for any debt, it doesn't mean the bailiffs will be sent automatically. The judge tells you what you have to pay (if you lose) and you tell them how you intend to pay that amount and so long as you stick to it you'll be fine. Bailiffs only ever visit if you do not keep to the arrangement you agree to when the judgement is made.
    Last edited by DizzleUK; 12-07-2010 at 11:50 PM.
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 13th Jul 10, 10:39 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    coco1277
    Hi Dizzle sorry to bother you again , I sent the letter you advised to send by email and even though in a previous email they accepted £50 month repayment this is now the email I have received from them , Is there any advice you can offer on this reply from them please as I am unsure what to do next .
    Thank you for your kind help



    Thank you for your email. We are pleased you wish to settle this amicably, which we also do.

    You need to appreciate that that we are not seeking to raise more funds from you but rather that we wish to settle as quickly as possible because that is the business of Toothfairy Finance, ‘SHORT TERM’ LOANS, repayable in 14 to 28 days.

    For your better understanding of your commitment, below are pertinent extracts of the terms and conditions double-digitally signed by you upon applying for the loan.

    1.You agree to pay us the Total Amount Payable on the Repayment Date. YOU are responsible for remembering to pay us on time. Although we endeavour to send reminders we are not obliged to do so.

    6. All sums owed under this Agreement shall become due and payable immediately upon us giving notice if:
    (a) any sum due is overdue by more than 14 days;
    (b) you have provided us with any false information when you entered into this Agreement; or
    (c) a statutory demand is served on you or any other steps are taken by you or any other person to make you bankrupt.

    Additional fees may be applied if we need to apply for a County Court Judgement or Warrant of Execution (from GBP45), engage with Solicitors (from GBP150), Debt Recovery Agents (from GBP200) or other agencies (GBP tbc) to recover your debt.

    12. We are registered at Companies House as CIM Technologies Limited trading as Toothfairy Finance. Our company number is 06144500. Our main business is consumer lending. We are regulated and authorised by the Office of Fair Trading (the "OFT") consumer credit license 615666

    Pertinent FAQs

    Q: When should I pay back the money and how much should I pay back?
    A: You have the choice of borrowing for either 14 or 28 days. Within that time, you should pay back the loan amount and cost.

    Q: What happens if I do not pay after 30 days?

    A: Not sure if you can pay back the loan, you should not apply. If you do not pay the loan within a specified time you will be charged for another loan period. If the payment still does not arrive, we will unfortunately have to send the debt to a debt collection agency which will incur additional charges.

    You will see from the above extracts that you have accepted the terms and conditions by double-digitally signing the application form, your following paragraph is factually incorrect:-

    “It has been suggested to me that the amount you are now requesting in such a short space of time is leaning towards extortion, and as I have not entered into a formal agreement to pay any amount other than the original £512 (the original loan plus the interest had I paid on time) this is the only amount I am willing to pay and will not be bullied, threatened or otherwise coerced into paying more than this.”

    We need to stress once more to you that Toothfairy Finance’s business is ‘short term’ loans and not ‘long term’. They therefore require re-payment according to their terms.

    You received your £300 loan on 29th April 2010 and this should have been repaid by 27th May 2010, according to the agreement, in the sum of £408. It was agreed on 3rd May that you could have the loan rolled over to 6 weeks, which meant that £462 was due to be paid on 10th June.

    You were reminded by email on 9th June that payment of £462 was due on the following day and if not paid, a further £54 was to be added to make it £516. We heard nothing from you and you were emailed again on 21st June to be informed that if not paid by 24th June, a further £54 was to be added and the file was to be taken on by Northern Debt Recovery which involved further costs of £350, resulting in a total sum of £920.

    Whilst pointing all this out to you, you can see that we are within our legal rights. The major point in question is that we are unable to accept payments of £50 per month because of the length of time it will take to have the money repaid and we will need to register defaults on your credit file if a satisfactory arrangement is not reached.

    The maximum period that we are able to consider is until the 30th September. We are prepared to freeze the outstanding sum at £732 split into 3 payments of £244. However, we will freeze the £516 on condition that it is totally paid by 31st July.
  • DizzleUK
    Well at least they have taken their time to spell out their terms for you.

    2 and a half months is not a reasonable amount of time to settle a non-priority debt by someone who is in financial difficulties. They are also dangling a carrot by keeping the debt to a "minimum" at £516 if you pay within 2 weeks!

    Keep the email. Reply to them with what I suggested earlier. Remind them that you are in financial difficulties (without going into sob stories) and that the timeframe they suggest is unreasonable given your circumstances. Reiterate that your offer is still open and at present you are unable to afford to increase said offer and that you are willing to settle the matter in court if need be as at least then you could apply to the court to pay any amount over a court approved- means tested period of time, which may be longer than they would like (how does £5 a month for 20 years sound? - DON'T put this bracketed bit in the email!).

    They *are" trying to negotiate with you, but their timescale is unreasonable.

    If they are still unwilling to budge on their next reply, it may be worth an appointment with your local CAB as I can't advise much beyond what I have already said.

    As I mentioned, personally I'd just say "fu*k you I'll see you in court" but that's me. I am not you and nor do I have to suffer any consequences that may befall you.
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

  • andymc29
    I agree with Drizzle. It's time the government actually clamped down on these loan sharks. the whole point of pay-day loans is to lend people moneyover short terms when they have financial difficulties, so it's clearly obvious that in a lot of cases, teh applicant will not be able to repay and this is where things really brake down into damn right criminal behaviour. The fact that they can charge over £200 to pass a £300 loan onto a collection agency that's clearly part of the same company (and in the same building) is a total joke.
    These guys are only one step better than a Nigerian ebay scammer and I can't beleive they're allowed to operate in this country.

    Maybe you're best bet would be to simply pay them back the original amount agreed (borrow off a friend if you can), then say that they can claim the additional charges through a small claims court, which means they have to justify to the court why they need to charge so much.
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    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 14th Jul 10, 8:15 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    coco1277
    Thank you for all your help I have done all of what you advised above and dont know what else I can do now as this was there latest response , but thank you again for the advice given .

    You are quite right that we accepted £50 per month but it was on the basis of "You must appreciate that interest is charged at £9 per week per £100 borrowed, which with a loan of £300 means interest of £108 per month."

    This means that each month you will be paying £50 but you will be owing £58 more, due to interest.

    We also stated "Once you start making regular payments and hopefully increases your monthly amounts, we may well be in a position to offer a final figure of payment."

    We are trying to give you the opportunity to increase your monthly payments in order to come to a quick settlement.

    It is quite clear we will not accept £50 per month on an ONGOING BASIS and offer a settlement figure.

    We need settlement as soon as possible and you need to consider your options.
  • DizzleUK
    "I have considered my options and I therefore request that you refer the matter to the County Court."

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

  • DizzleUK
    It is quite clear we will not accept £50 per month on an ONGOING BASIS and offer a settlement figure.

    We need settlement as soon as possible and you need to consider your options.
    Originally posted by coco1277
    This is your key to a successful defence in court. Any judge reading this will kick TF's backside back out the door.
    Remember this: nothing worth doing is easy.

    • coco1277
    • By coco1277 15th Jul 10, 10:20 AM
    • 168 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    coco1277
    Hi been to CAB and they advised me to send this letter to them , I have also added (again ) some of the bits you advised Dizzle , see what they come back with now .

    Thank you for your recent communication , I am quite disappointed by your reply , As I have stated in previous emails peoples circumstances can rapidly change which mine have an advised you I am in financial difficulties and have not ignored you nor am I refusing to pay I have offered £50 per month on the original loan including the interest which would of took the balance to £516 , however I am refusing to pay the extortionate extra interest and fees when you are obviously part of Toothfairy Finance and are located in the same building as the address on your letter is the same as theres.
    I have been in contact with the OFT and they have advised me to remind you of the debt collection guidelines :
    f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,
    or to increase payments when they are unable to do so
    2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly
    d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual costs
    g. failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments
    e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt
    and necessary costs
    I shall not be making any payment until we have come to an amicable payment arrangement to clear the debt, BEFORE I pay you any money at all, I would like confirmation of a final balance that needs to be repaid. I need this in writing (by email is fine) that the repayment agreement I am entering into what the amount is that should be repaid, what timescale we both expect it to conclude by and that the balance will not increase further so long as I stick to the arrangement .
    My original offer of £50 per month on the debt of £516 still remains open for your consideration.
  • teamonster
    My daughter has had some rather unpleasant dealings with Toothfairy and I wonder if with all their threats if they would ever resort to physical violence to get their money back?
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