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  • FIRST POST
    Williams
    Electric Heating Options
    • #1
    • 26th Oct 08, 11:05 AM
    Electric Heating Options 26th Oct 08 at 11:05 AM
    Hi, I wonder if anyone can help. We live in a 2-bedroom flat which is 3-aspect North facing. It is single-glazed and we don't believe we can change this as it is a period property. We have two Fondis Solaris heaters in the lounge which seem to cost the earth to use and don't seem to be that effective. Also, the lounge is open plan to the kitchen and hallway so there is a large area to heat. Someone has suggested using an oil-filled electric radiator as it would keep the heat for longer, but we have borrowed a plug-in one to try which goes cold as soon as it is switched off. With winter fast approaching and the place getting colder by the day, we are keen to know what other options would be available that won't cost a bomb. We haven't got gas or any form of central heating. We aren't on E7 and don't believe it would be any more economical.

    Many Thanks.
Page 1
  • SallyD
    • #2
    • 26th Oct 08, 11:56 AM
    • #2
    • 26th Oct 08, 11:56 AM
    On 20/10/08 I posted a thread on Storage Heaters, this was one of the replies you might find interesting.


    Check these out:
    "Heat Electric has developed a truly revolutionary central heating system. Our unique, electric water filled radiator requires no plumbing or pipe-work. Simply wall mount onto brackets, plug into a standard 13 amp socket and switch on. The radiators are highly efficient - being water filled they attain the same heat output quality of a plumbed wet system - have exceptional controllability and are easy to install."

    How it Works: http://www.easy-heat.co.uk/how_it_wo...9abd_page.aspx

    How Much it Costs to Run: http://www.easy-heat.co.uk/easy-heat...39b5_page.aspx

    I've heard good things about them. The main benefit is they don't require special wiring or plumbing. Just mount them on the wall and plug them in.
    SallyD
  • Cardew
    • #3
    • 26th Oct 08, 12:00 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Oct 08, 12:00 PM
    There are lots of threads on this problem.

    The first and most important thing to remember is that all forms* of electrical heating are 100% efficient, So it doesn't matter what type of heater you get, oil filled radiator, convecter heater, these fancy new kalirel type systems, etc you get exactly the same amount of heat for your money.

    There is absolutely no running cost advantage for any of these heaters and it is the most expensive way of heating available.

    Storage heaters are cheaper only because you store heat obtained at cheap rates. However as discussed on here at length, they do have problems of 'leaking' heat and you need to plan ahead. However if on E7 you do get cheaper hot water.

    So there is no doubt that storage heating on economy 7 will be cheaper than any other form of electrical heating for most people.

    * Heat pumps are cheaper to run, but probably not practical for a flat.
  • Cardew
    • #4
    • 26th Oct 08, 12:10 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Oct 08, 12:10 PM
    On 20/10/08 I posted a thread on Storage Heaters, this was one of the replies you might find interesting.


    Check these out:
    "Heat Electric has developed a truly revolutionary central heating system. Our unique, electric water filled radiator requires no plumbing or pipe-work. Simply wall mount onto brackets, plug into a standard 13 amp socket and switch on. The radiators are highly efficient - being water filled they attain the same heat output quality of a plumbed wet system - have exceptional controllability and are easy to install."

    How it Works: http://www.easy-heat.co.uk/how_it_wo...9abd_page.aspx

    How Much it Costs to Run: http://www.easy-heat.co.uk/easy-heat...39b5_page.aspx

    I've heard good things about them. The main benefit is they don't require special wiring or plumbing. Just mount them on the wall and plug them in.
    Originally posted by SallyD
    I would like to know what good things you have heard about them.

    I am sorry but these things are every bit as expensive to run as any other form of electrical heating.

    You can pay thousands for these systems which produce exactly the same amount of heat for you s as some 20 oil filled radiators or granny's old 1/2/3 bar electric fire.

    IMO their website is specifically designed to 'fool' those people with little knowledge of electrical theory or physics.
  • SallyD
    • #5
    • 26th Oct 08, 12:27 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Oct 08, 12:27 PM
    I have no knowledge of this type of heating I simply cut and pasted a reply from PasturesNew who supplied the information which I found useful in as much as I could, if I wanted, replace the Sunhouse night storage heaters already installed to this type of electric radiator to existing sockets without uprooting major renovation works done on the property plus the benefit would be that I could control it.

    The nightstorage heatings although brand new are not the convector type. The house is semi rural no natural gas so alternatives being oil/propane (with a patio garden not much room for tanks or heat source pump) or making the best use of the electric heating already installed and these suggested radiators not only looked nicer but would be controllable.
    SallyD
  • Williams
    • #6
    • 2nd Nov 08, 9:41 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Nov 08, 9:41 PM
    Still looking into portable electric heating options, it would seem that an oil-filled radiator would be most economical. However, we have also seen oil-free radiators advertised as being more economically friendly and cheaper to run. How exactly do these work? Are they not just convection heaters? Any advice would be great.
  • Magentasue
    • #7
    • 2nd Nov 08, 11:12 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Nov 08, 11:12 PM
    Still looking into portable electric heating options, it would seem that an oil-filled radiator would be most economical. However, we have also seen oil-free radiators advertised as being more economically friendly and cheaper to run. How exactly do these work? Are they not just convection heaters? Any advice would be great.
    Originally posted by Williams
    I have used convector heaters at home and found them effective but expensive. That's compared to gas CH, though. I have used oil filled radiators at work and found them less effective but I think that's because they were being used in larger rooms than domestic spaces. The main difference is that they take a while to heat up but, in the same way, they take longer to cool down so I suppose that's why they claim to be cheaper to run. Maybe in tests, they needed to be on for less time to achieve the same temperatures?
  • Cardew
    • #8
    • 2nd Nov 08, 11:39 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Nov 08, 11:39 PM
    Still looking into portable electric heating options, it would seem that an oil-filled radiator would be most economical. However, we have also seen oil-free radiators advertised as being more economically friendly and cheaper to run. How exactly do these work? Are they not just convection heaters? Any advice would be great.
    Originally posted by Williams
    All electrical heating is 100% efficient.

    So regardless of what type of heater you have*, convector, oil filled radiator, radiators filled with ANY substance, Granny's old 1/2/3/ bar fire etc etc you get EXACTLY the same amount of heat for your s.

    So no heater is 'more economical'; they just have different characteristics. An oil filled radiator retains heat longer, but it is slower to warm up as the electrical energy is heating the oil.

    * excluding heat pumps. Storage heater have the same efficiency but can use cheaper electricity.
  • Mazio
    • #9
    • 3rd Nov 08, 7:29 AM
    • #9
    • 3rd Nov 08, 7:29 AM
    I agree with Cardew but I always think for larger rooms and to distribute the heat qicker a fan heater seems to be best but will still cost you the same if you have a large area to heat you will need 2-3k (if not bigger) this will cost you 2-3 units of electricity an hour my own cost would be 33p/hour for 3Kw doesnt sound allot until you multiply by the amount of time eg 8 hours a day = 2.64 for me to heat 1 (hopefully) room if it runs continuosly..
    But if you can get it up to temp and retain the heat in the room for some time then the running costs will fall as the unit will switch its self on and off so if you have to go with electric

    1) Try to insulate windows and stop drafts
    Cheap secondary glaziing include bubble wrap, stick it over your windows (if you dont need to look out) using water, I have never tried this.
    Draft excluders use masking tape to seal badly fitting window joints.

    2)Get a heater with a thermostat "if" your room reaches temp then this will cut the the electric to the heater and should save you money.

    If you need safety then an oil filled rad is safer (pets/children) less potential to cause a fire also gives more localized heat in one area.

    Have you considered a calor (bottled) fire they will cost more to buy but I think they should be cheaper to run and have high outputs the problem with them though you need ventilation in the room,.but I havent used one in years and you will have to check.

    This is only what I would be looking at but your situation will need you to asses and with all the advice and info you can find or get hopefully come to the correct desicion.

    I think even in a listed building you can fit secondary glazing.

    Can you fit cheap curtain in open doorways to seal rooms from one another?
    Last edited by Mazio; 03-11-2008 at 7:36 AM.
    Look after the pennies and the pounds will spend themselves
  • amtrakuk
    As mentioned above generally electric heating uses the same amount of electricity. The only difference is the quality of heating, a "radiator" type heater gives out a steady cozey type of heat as it gently warming the moisture in the air. Convector type heaters super heat the air causing the convection, some people report these heaters Dry the air.

    I don't have experience of owning a "bar" electric fire but assume as these radiate heat they warm the moisture in the air,
  • 200
    I regularly use electric panel heaters and they do dry the air
    badly, if they run for a long time it can have seriously anoying effects on humidity,
    youre stuck, you have to research insulation, not heating and those water heaters sound fishy as i dont think itle make much of a diference, unless you take electricCH
  • amtrakuk
    insulation is an important factor, also check for drafts. I was wondering why there was a screaming draft under the door and my heaters were clicking on and off so much last year. It turns out the old gas flame affect fire was sucking all the heat out of the room. I held a cigarette about 2 foot from the fire and instead of the smoke going up it went sideways and into the fire. At the moment i have removed the fire and have bin liners taped across the recess (Classy I know). I have been doing some research and found a reasonably priced solution - chimney balloons http://www.chimney-balloon.co.uk/ it should stop the drafts and look a bit more presentable than bin liners across the recess!
  • Katie-Kat-Kins
    I believe that you can get double glazing that is suitable for listed properties, it would be worth speaking to your local conservation officer about this. Rehau are the company I came accross at work, they make traditional looking sash windows that meet current safety standards and can be used in listed buildings. I came accross them because they had been used in a conversion of an old listed hospital building to flats.
  • sashman
    I believe that you can get double glazing that is suitable for listed properties, it would be worth speaking to your local conservation officer about this. Rehau are the company I came accross at work, they make traditional looking sash windows that meet current safety standards and can be used in listed buildings. I came accross them because they had been used in a conversion of an old listed hospital building to flats.
    Originally posted by KatP
    Williams

    do check with the local authority, before considering windows. As a manufacturer I know how difficult the authorities can be, some will accept secondary, some will accept replacement windows double glazed, but English heritage are only interested in the preservation of buildings not conservation/energy efficiency etc they want the building and the windows to remain just as they are ....draughts and all, it all depends on the local inspectors view of EH as to whether they follow EH guideance or not!

    sashman
  • samtheman1k
    Originally posted by SallyD
    At least they're being honest about the price!!!

    The radiator size is basically the BTU output of those radiators. A typical house will require around 30000 BTUs to heat. That is equivalent to around 10 of those 3100 radiators. For a 'modern insulated house', they claim that they will cost 7.5p each to run, per hour. That is thus 75p per hour to run in total to heat the whole house. That's 7.50 per day if it's on for 10 hours a day. That's 225 per month purely on heating...does that sound economical to you?
  • black taxi
    i had kensington radiators on my favs--but webpage is now no longer available

    have they ceased as a company thx

    cardew i hav a small-1 bedroom flat edinburgh---what type of central heating system would you recommend.small convectional heaters do the job--but dont look right if i want to sell or rent flat
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  • Cardew
    Only you can decide what you want.

    I suspect with a small one bed flat, where appearance mattered, I would go with wall hung radiators(panel heaters) with their own thermostat, timer and remote control.

    This sort of thing gives you an idea.

    http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/panel_heaters/index.htm

    You can always have a 20 fan heater in a cupboard to bring out if you really need to boost the heat.
  • mal4mac
    Depends on your situation. If you are single (or with a better half who likes to experiement!), don't mind mild background noise, have some tolerance for cold, and don't mind appearing a bit eccentric, the 20 fan heater might be the optimal solution. Cost wise - they last for decades without you needing to call out any plumbers So initial cost & maintenance cannot be bettered. Because you can direct the draught of heat onto yourself you are maximising the heat being transferred to you--with panel heaters much of it just drifts to the ceiling and quickly out the gap at the top of the door or through the ceiling without touching you. Get yourself a nice, large, heat absorbent arm chair to absorb & maintain the hot air that misses you. Also, you get instantly heated by a fan heater, no need to heat up the room when you aren't in it. You'll probably get so heated up you will quickly move onto half power, or turn it off frequently. The key is to think about heating *just* you and forget about heating the house. Wear two good pullovers, plug every draught gap, .... Get a seriously good four season qualofill sleeping bag for winter bedtimes. Think like a swede when in the bathroom (sauna/icy air. Good for you!) Heat *just* the amount of water you need to have your weekly shower and use kettle to heat just the amount of water you need to wash dishes/face.
  • JonesA
    Hi Cardew, you seem to be in the know on heating matters i wonder if you can offer me some advice?
    I have recently moved into an open plan barn conversion in a rural location. There is no gas available. The heating consists of four
    Independently controlled under floor heating circuits. The under floor heating was installed a long time ago and doesnt reflect the heat upwards properly making it very costly and inefficient. As the flooring heats the concrete block the house stands on it works almost like a massive storage heater and needs to be left on all the time in order to be warm which costs the earth. The electricity bills are huge and we need an alternative way of heating. We have a log burner in the living room which we use in the evening but it isnt large enough to effectively heat the whole house.
    We are out all day and back in the evening. Can you suggest what would be the cheapest way of topping up the heating using electrical appliances. I know you mention storage heaters are good as they use the cheap rate at night but could electric radiators be more effective if they were only on in the evening?

    There are lots of threads on this problem.

    The first and most important thing to remember is that all forms* of electrical heating are 100% efficient, So it doesn't matter what type of heater you get, oil filled radiator, convecter heater, these fancy new kalirel type systems, etc you get exactly the same amount of heat for your money.

    There is absolutely no running cost advantage for any of these heaters and it is the most expensive way of heating available.

    Storage heaters are cheaper only because you store heat obtained at cheap rates. However as discussed on here at length, they do have problems of 'leaking' heat and you need to plan ahead. However if on E7 you do get cheaper hot water.

    So there is no doubt that storage heating on economy 7 will be cheaper than any other form of electrical heating for most people.

    * Heat pumps are cheaper to run, but probably not practical for a flat.
    Originally posted by Cardew
  • tori.k
    If you are a competent diy'er make up some shutters for the windows, my DS & BIL lives in a listed Georgian property the window shutters dont half make a difference
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