NRAM Class Action on redress method.

lennonc1 · 21 March 2013 at 10:24PM

Scottydog09 wrote: »

Ok, so I have had my formal response from NRAM which states that they are taking the decision on reducing the balance as per the terms of the agreement. The contentious part is that they are highlighting the part of the agreement that says they have the right to to reduce the balance or number of payments in the event of "Overpayments made by you to reduce the balance". The question is whether or not this amount should be classed as an overpayment? Certainly none of the documentation refers to "overpayments" only "redress", Complaint already typed to the FOS. Updates to follow.

As a closing note, it always amazes me when people take time out of their busy day to troll these forums and offer no help or advice but purely look to provoke others. If you don't want a refund. Fine! If this doesn't impact you. Fine! If you don't agree with the opinions. Fine! Just let the people this means something to get only with airing their views and trying to help other with similar views!

Couldn't agree more, I can only cope on here in small doses now, the kind of self righteous people posting things that are not in the least helpful does not help the cause!!

tracy7 · 21 March 2013 at 10:47PM

lennonc1 wrote: »

I for one have never claimed for anything, this would be a first and I have explained my situation, not for anyone to judge. I have hardly any debt left as I have paid it all off over the past year or so.£ 600 is what is left, and rest has to go to new boiler etc and to pay estate agent fees to sell, I have been using savings to pay mortgage as I am off work with a new baby. We have a very valid argument here. Can I ask why you seem to care so much when you have received redress and are apparently happy with your outcome. This thread was set up for people who are in same situation and want to do something about it, between this and the other thread, why post above on here and not other thread where I commented origanally on Ppi??

I care so much because of the impact all this, on top of everything else that has and is already happening, is going to have on every single person in this country.

I am happy with the outcome because I think it corrects an imbalance created by the higher rates we have been paying compared to other lenders customers who have been enjoying very low interest rates.

I concede that from the time that this mistake was discovered in February 2012 until the moment of correction that this interest should not have been collected by NRAM since whilst customers may have struggled to make payments and potentially suffered financial hardship NRAM knowingly enforced illegal and immoral collection. Therefore that this payment should be reimbursed in kind with some interest. though I believe 8% interest is probably too high considering the appalling interest rates savers are currently enduring! Perhaps a refund on the amount of interest you could have saved over that period had you used the extra money to pay off other existing debts would be more appropriate and potentially advantageous.

I still do not agree that payments prior to February 2012 should be made in kind with interest and that balance adjustment is more appropriate. The reasons being the ones I have already stated in previous posts.

I still maintain that redress by balance adjustment is the most appropriate and beneficial method of redress to the customer if you are not completely dependent on an immediate payment to rescue you from the mire.

My reason posting on the other threads being that many people are likening this to PPI reclaiming across the threads and this is a different situation.

tracy7 · 22 March 2013 at 12:31AM

I am fully aware of issues whereby people may have been able to offset other debt but the fact remains that, as Martin Lewis would undoubtedly agree, a large loan over a long period of time even at an APR lower than other smaller debts taken over a shorter period of time with a higher APR is still more costly in the long run. i think this comes down more to the overstretching yourself financially and affordability, both of which are your own responsibilty.

My argument has changed slightly, based on others responses, in that I do actually agree that whilst NRAM were aware of the mistake (February 2012 onwards) and still charging interest and potentially causing those people financial hardship or other penalty that they took this money in the full knowledge that this was unlawful and therefore this amount should be reimbursed forthwith or set off against any accumulated arrears.

However I will stick to my guns pre February 2012, and though people claim that they should not have made payments this information was not available at that time, if this mistake had not occurred you would still have been responsible for making those payments. You could still have been struggling to make payments and been on a debt management programme.

Anyone who is in a position to forgo an immediate payment would definitely benefit in the medium to long term with a significant reduction in cost.

Before going any further, I am not having a personal dig at you Tracy7, merely playing devils advocate.

That's absolutely fine, I can see more than one point to an argument and as any intelligent person I am more than capable of taking on board others reasoning and adjusting my own views accordingly.

Did you REALLY need to take out your loan? I like many really did need to put these additional payments towards a trust deed at the time, having excluded NRAM from the Trust Deed in case I lost my home. Hindsight and knowledge gained now tells me that my Loan and Mortgage were two legally separate Loans, however, I did NRAM a favour by paying THEM more than they were due, both in the case of the interest payments and outwith my DMP!

Your quote above brings me to something else you mentioned, were you really just jumping on the bandwagon with everyone else? In all honesty, you probably were. There is nothing wrong with that as you were "legally" entitled to your PPI reclaim, as us NRAM Customers are entitled to our Overpayments and Interest back.

It would be interesting to hear how long you have been on a debt management plan and the circumstances which led to that since I doubt these issues are recent, though i should not of course jump to such conclusions. Interest rates have been much lower than the original rate most people would have been on. Again 2 reasons spring to mind - overstretching yourself financially or loss of income due to long term illness or loss of employment.

I took out that particular loan many years ago to pay off student debts, long before taking out a mortgage. I was particularly disgruntled at the time because I could see no valid reason for taking PPI as previously discussed. I wrote to my bank off my own back long before PPI reclaiming became the thing to do, I was sent a standard rejection letter. Following the campaign by Martin Lewis I decided to try again since this confirmed to me I was in the right - so no, not on the band wagon and absolutely justified.

My argument for interest is that NRAM have accrued interest on our money and we have lost out by not being able to invest these overpayments elsewhere and in more drastic cases, watched Trust Deeds and IVA's fail due to not being able to afford the minimum monthly cost.

I understand your stance on this but only during the period NRAM were aware of the issue of non-compliance and the rectification of this matter, ie not prior to February 2012.

I think the fact that you are watching Trust Deeds (not sure what they are) and IVA's fail due to not being able to make the minimum payment (which I assume you agreed you could afford) shows just how dire your circumstances are and that this situation has not arisen overnight. That it could mean that any extra money would simply have been absorbed into your lifestyle.

Therefore it is OK for me to pay for your PPI reclaim!?

My reclaim was made years ago, prior to the recession and the bank in question footed the bill not you or the tax payer!

The difference against your PPI claim is what exactly?

I was forced into taking the PPI against my will and judgement, I argued the case at the time but was only allowed the loan on the proviso I took the insurance.

No matter who you are, what financial trouble you have found yourself in, NRAM have done wrong and should have given their Customers a choice.

If they were in a position to be able to do that. You have to take into account all those people with loans higher than £25K and those whose loans have already been repaid.

That choice has to take in a wider consideration which includes the tax payer at large and the state of the country and the services it provides.

As was your PPI!

Your argument is totally biased.

Not really, but if the shoe fits you....

I assume you either:

- Have not been affected by this,
- Have been affected by this and are quite happy to have your Loan reduced as you do not need the money, nor would it have made a difference to your financial circumstances.

It could make a difference to my personal circumstances I could make home improvements, pay off other debts. I could do any number of things but I prefer long term benefits which I know will have no immediate impact on the rest of the country.

Don't take my post personally, I am just exposing flaws in your arguments as I think they are !!!!!!!!.

Ditto! I'm just putting across other points of view rather than this tunnel vision people appear to have acquired.

The only valid point you make is that it is different from the PPI reclaims.[/QUOTE]

manvdebt · 22 March 2013 at 5:30PM

@tracy7

Ok, I am only going to visit the points I feel you make are valid and relevant to our argument to stop the thread going off on a tangent and keep it relevant.

I concede that from the time that this mistake was discovered in February 2012 until the moment of correction that this interest should not have been collected by NRAM since whilst customers may have struggled to make payments and potentially suffered financial hardship NRAM knowingly enforced illegal and immoral collection.

You make a good point here, however, NRAM are an institution that must abide by the laws of the land and it is their responsibility to ensure that they do this.

For Example, Mr & Mrs Bloggs run a laundry service part time but are not aware they need to by law register as self-employed. A year later they find out but continue trading without registering as self-employed. Not only are they liable to tax for the period they were "unaware", but they are effectively committing a fraudulent act in the second year.

Ignorance is not a substitute for abiding by the law.

Therefore that this payment should be reimbursed in kind with some interest. though I believe 8% interest is probably too high considering the appalling interest rates savers are currently enduring!

8% is a statutory interest levied on any summary cause. You would have had your 8% added to your PPI reclaim (or should have). If it is good enough for a creditor to sue anyone for the full balance including interest of their original loan plus an 8% interest levy, it is good enough for the same rules to apply when they are being sued.

I still do not agree that payments prior to February 2012 should be made in kind with interest and that balance adjustment is more appropriate. The reasons being the ones I have already stated in previous posts.

Balance adjustments in your opinion are more beneficial. DOn't forget, NRAM have breached the Consumer Credit Act and should be held liable.

My reason posting on the other threads being that many people are likening this to PPI reclaiming across the threads and this is a different situation.

I will say again, this is totally different to the PPI reclaims, however a law has been breached.

It would be interesting to hear how long you have been on a debt management plan and the circumstances which led to that since I doubt these issues are recent, though i should not of course jump to such conclusions. Interest rates have been much lower than the original rate most people would have been on. Again 2 reasons spring to mind - overstretching yourself financially or loss of income due to long term illness or loss of employment.

I feel this is worth a response. The DMP has been ongoing for almost 5 years. I will explain why. In order to get accepted onto a Trust Deed here in Scotland (similar to an IVA in England/Wales), your creditors must agree to it and you must make a minimum payment of approx 8p in the pound. NRAM was a MASSIVE barrier in this and this is not a route I was able to go down.

Under the DMP, I will pay off all my debt, over a longer period of time and based on a cashflow I can afford. The payment, should I receive one from NRAM, is enough to settle my outstanding debt.

Now, due to an illness in my family, we were down to one incoming salary which was enough to meet our minimum living cost plus come to an agreement with our Creditors. This is not what you would call financial overindulgence. We were living well within our means.

Not really, but if the shoe fits you....

You hit the nail on the head here. You cannot view your PPI claim as morally and legally just and dismiss our claims without our views being considered. But as you said, you are open to changing your views and although I do believe you had a point with the Post Feb 2012 point you made, I do disagree with you in the sense of my example with Mr & Mrs Bloggs.

StevieG36 · 22 March 2013 at 11:39PM

I'll join in to this thread as i am being affected by this just like the rest of u!
Together mortgage 116k secured. 14k unsecured, taken out in 2006
40k neg equity & nowhere to go!
Statement received re - cca redress recently.
Complained to nram - re method of redress. I want a cheque now. My money, nrams mistake!
Received 'final' response letter dismissing complaint
Compiling paperwork & further info to go fos
I should be given the option of redress. I signed for 30yr mortgage in its 8th yr. it should be my decision whether i want to reduce this loan not nrams!!

lennonc1 · 22 March 2013 at 11:57PM

Yes you are right, the more to complain the better, a few of us are working on the possibility of an action group, we are in touch with various people to gain some advice and support. There is also another thread for NRam CCA action group, once we have some things finalised we can post a detailed statement of what we are able to do going forward.

StevieG36 · 23 March 2013 at 11:18AM

I'll be willing to join in this action group - the more the merrier!
I have a family of 4 and could do with 3k now while times are tough. Why should I wait 22 yrs for money that I need now? Who's to say that during that 5yrs of nrams admitted incompetence that I would have had enough money to pay off my creditors if I hadn't been paying interest on a loan that I didn't even need to?! Is it nrams right to deprive my creditors or me of my money?!
Surely for those people who are on a dmp or iva the creditors would have something to say too??!

manvdebt · 23 March 2013 at 1:10PM

Surely for those people who are on a dmp or iva the creditors would have something to say too??!

Exactly, Stevie, this is just a big can of worms with more complexity other than just NRAM deducting it from the balance.

We all signed an "Agreement" and not a "Dictation" when we took out our Together Mortgages.

In order to change the terms of that "Agreement", which by the way is a Legal Document, the two parties of that said agreement should have been consulted and mediated by a third party if need be.

Just because NRAM is Government Owned doesn't give them the right to dictate what should happen.

By being Government owned, really means owned by the Tax Payer which is you and I and the rest of us, therefore who are they to 5-hit in their own back yard?

Hopefully we will have some movement soon with regards to the action group, but the more people that get on board, the better!

shaney1981 · 24 March 2013 at 1:31PM

Just had the stock response to my complaint, hilarious. I actually believe they think we're all going to go away.... I have sent them a reply asking to put my account into dispute until they resolve my complaint. Probably won't get me anywhere but jesus, I'm not even asking for the cash. They were not in a position to resolve my complaint at that current time..... What a way to run a business.

StevieG36 · 24 March 2013 at 3:28PM

Just unbelievable aren't they! Has anyone requested original paperwork and having trouble getting it? No transparency at all, and the statements are a compare joke. It doesn't even give total redress amount and just breaks the costs down month to month.

NRAM Class Action on redress method.

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