Yellow Box at T Junction - PCN Advice

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theobearman
theobearman Posts: 4 Newbie
in Motoring
Hello all,

This morning, I received a PCN for entering and stopping in the yellow box located at the junction of Finchley Road and Bridge Lane, London, NW11. This is a yellow box at a T junction.

If you look at yellow box in Google street view (I can't post links or screenshots as a new user), I was in exactly the same position as the grey Ford seen inside the box in street view. Like this Ford, I was forced to stop inside the box due to a car pulling out to turn right from the Bridge Lane on the left hand side.

Does this particular circumstance constitute a legitimate infringement of a yellow box? I am confused around the rules for how yellow boxes work at T junctions,

Thanks very much in advance,

Theo
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Comments

  • Aylesbury_Duck
    Aylesbury_Duck Posts: 14,109 Forumite
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    I don't think so. There's not much you can do if they suddenly pull out just as you're entering the box or after you're in it but presumably they were already there when you entered the box? If so, you are at fault because you entered the box when your exit wasn't clear. If you were in very slow traffic when the car emerged into the box, the argument is that you should have waited until there was a car-length space beyond the box for you to drive into before entering the box.
  • theobearman
    theobearman Posts: 4 Newbie
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    Thanks for your quick reply. Traffic was slow but there would have been sufficient space on the other side of the box for me to enter into. As I entered the box, the vehicle from the left pulled out in front of me. He was not already there when I entered the box. As a result of oncoming traffic on the other side of the road, he was unable to turn right, leaving us both stationary inside the box.
  • Aylesbury_Duck
    Aylesbury_Duck Posts: 14,109 Forumite
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    Do you have dashcam footage? If not, I don't see how you could appeal this successfully. The camera photo will simply show you and the other driver in the box, it won't provide the contextual information you need to show that you were not at fault.
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
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    Take this to pepipoo for best advice
  • DoaM
    DoaM Posts: 11,863 Forumite
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    Presumably the photo is a still from a video? (A photo can't be used to prove a "stopping" charge ... by definition a photo records an instant in time therefore the subject will always be "stopped").

    As above, Pepipoo is the best place for this.
  • theobearman
    theobearman Posts: 4 Newbie
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    I don't have dashcam footage. Surely the council will have to be able to demonstrate that according to photo and video evidence, I was infringing illegally in the box? They would have to prove that, even though the driver entering from the left wasn't in the box himself when I entered the box, I was still in the wrong surely?

    They can't PCN me based on a still photo shot that doesn't provide the context we've referred to.
  • Aylesbury_Duck
    Aylesbury_Duck Posts: 14,109 Forumite
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    theobearman wrote: »
    They can't PCN me based on a still photo shot that doesn't provide the context we've referred to.
    But they have.

    Others have pointed you to a specialist site for help. I'm sure they will help you with the correct procedures for asking the authority for the contextual information you need to appeal your case successfully. Good luck with it.
  • theobearman
    theobearman Posts: 4 Newbie
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    Thank you.

    I much appreciate all of your thoughts and advice.
  • deaston
    deaston Posts: 477 Forumite
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    I thought you couldn't enter a box junction unless your exit is clear. If your progress through the box junction is stopped (in this case by a car entering it and blocking your route) but the exit of the box is still clear, surely you've done nothing wrong?

    In fact, you are able to stop in a box junction when turning right if your exit is clear.
  • Ant555
    Ant555 Posts: 1,569 Forumite
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    If the photo that they have shows that the exit was clear in your lane ahead of you when you entered the yellow box ANDif its a video it shows that the car was not in your way as you entered it then you should be able to argue your case.

    If a video shows that your exit was blocked OR that the car was already in the yellow box when you entered it then they are correct.

    I think the rules state that both your exit and your lane have to be clear - I believe it is OK for the other driver to enter the box and wait in it to turn right!

    Not sure if I have stated anything that you did not already know but I hope this helps.
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