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Letter before claim

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1131416181932

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  • Kind_Of_Irritated
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    I haven't had an N180 from the court yet, just the one Gladstones sent me. So I have no idea of any deadline re getting this back. I'm loathe to send it before I hear from the court. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

    Also, at this stage should I be contacting the landowner(s) / head lease-holder(s) to inform them that I am responding to this charge in court and will be referencing the lack of mention re parking AT ALL in my son's lease (so no contract, imho)?

    Also, if I do contact them should I let them know, provided it goes my way in court, that someone (Management Company or Link or Gladstones - or all 3) will be asked to pay my damages or expenses perhaps as much as £750 for this lack of clarity and passing over of "contract" responsibility?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,730 Forumite
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    You could ring the Court and ask if the N180 is on the way or do they have a backlog?

    Yes and yes, you your other questions. But the (up to) £750 will be specifically for a DPA breach.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Kind_Of_Irritated
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    Thanks Coupon-mad.
    You could ring the Court and ask if the N180 is on the way or do they have a backlog?

    Yes and yes, you your other questions. But the (up to) £750 will be specifically for a DPA breach.

    1) I'll do that - ring the court and check re backlog.

    2) Will write something to the Management Company but to be blunt, I don't want to make personal relations difficult for my son who is the resident, and who rather likes it there.

    3) If the £750 compensation only applies regarding a Data Protection Act breach I'm not sure I could do that - because I gave them my information in the first place. Is the fact that they passed it on to their solicitors considered a DPA breach?
  • Kind_Of_Irritated
    Kind_Of_Irritated Posts: 227 Forumite
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    edited 11 July 2017 at 11:53AM
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    PP's blog is useful on this, as on everything. It's here http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/
  • Kind_Of_Irritated
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    Update and a query or two, if you'd be so kind.

    On 24th January I received from my local court the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing).

    The hearing is in about 10 weeks time.

    Within about 4 weeks the Court requires all documents upon which parties intend to rely at the hearing. Copied to the other side, the claimant.

    So, as I understand it, I now need to get my Witness statement together (& one from my son too), as well as all the other pictures, emails, letters etc. And a copy of my son's tenancy agreement.

    There is something in this letter about the date by which the claimant has to pay their £25. That's only in about 10 days from now.

    Should I ring the court to find out if they have paid it by then? I'm wondering that if it is unpaid on that date does the whole thing collapse? It says "failure to pay the fee will result in the hearing being removed from the list". Does that mean it would be thrown out permanently?

    I'm asking this because I have recently heard of some people who were not informed at all that the claimant (also Gladstones for Link Parking) had pulled out at the last minute. Don't want to do all this compiling of papers for nothing or turn up at the court to find out it's been cancelled.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,730 Forumite
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    edited 27 January 2017 at 11:47PM
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    Should I ring the court to find out if they have paid it by then?

    Yes you could do that.

    Another suggestion: there is nothing to stop you sending a pushy letter/email next week to Gladstones, telling them that your defence will be including the Jopson v Homeguard Appeal case and other relevant transcripts such as Pace v Mr N, which all support a defence relying partly on primacy of contract and the fact a parking firm cannot override existing implied grants under a lease which allow vehicles to pass and re-pass on site, including loading/unloading as part of that right.

    State that the lease will also be provided in evidence and it is known that Link have already failed in similar cases at a residential car park at Overstone Court. As such, Gladstone have no cause of action. Finally, inform them that, when you prevail at any hearing if they decide not to discontinue, a claim for misuse of data is likely to be pursued against their client and the landholder with whom they contracted, with no regard to the rights and grants enjoyed by residents on site and their allowed visitors.

    Even if you've already sent something, I would do it again, keep prodding and rattling their cage - and then after the ten days is past (a good few days after), ring the court and see if G's paid the hearing fee or not.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Kind_Of_Irritated
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    Coupon-mad, you are a gem.

    I'll do what you suggest, including this:
    Another suggestion: there is nothing to stop you sending a pushy letter/email next week to Gladstones, telling them that your defence will be including the Jopson v Homeguard Appeal case and other relevant transcripts such as Pace v Mr N, which all support a defence relying partly on primacy of contract and the fact a parking firm cannot override existing implied grants under a lease which allow vehicles to pass and re-pass on site, including loading/unloading as part of that right.

    State that the lease will also be provided in evidence and it is known that Link have already failed in similar cases at a residential car park at Overstone Court. As such, Gladstone have no cause of action.

    But, unfortunately the misuse of data point probably doesn't apply in this case. The RK contacted the DVLA and there has been no search for our vehicle or information. That would be because it was not necessary, as in our innocence /ignorance we told them who was driving right at the start.
    Finally, inform them that, when you prevail at any hearing if they decide not to discontinue, a claim for misuse of data is likely to be pursued against their client and the landholder with whom they contracted, with no regard to the rights and grants enjoyed by residents on site and their allowed visitors.

    Is there any other way they could have misused our data?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,730 Forumite
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    edited 28 January 2017 at 12:17AM
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    OK let's make it so this could be later twisted that way, after you've won. Set some foundations at this stage as well as saying the rest above:

    Include in the letter the fact that this letter is an 'objection to processing' data (Section 10 of the DPA applies). The driver's name and address was only provided for the sole purpose of appealing the unfair charge and to inform the parking firm that the driver had a right to pass and re-pass, as was found in the Jopson case (a Gladstones case) HHJ Harris QC remarking that otherwise, life in a development of flats/houses would be 'unworkable'.

    Since the parking operator knew this, but has thereafter disregarded the driver's rights under the lease, as soon as the fact was disclosed that the car was there in connection with a resident under their rights to pass and re-pass, the PCN should have been cancelled. To continue to then process data, ignoring the rights of way of the resident and their visitors was a matter of derogation from grant. As agents for the managing agent, Link was negligent and had no right to pursue the charge and/or continue to process the data supplied which informed them in no uncertain terms that the driver was not a trespasser.

    So, finish by saying the purpose of this letter is to avoid wasting the court's time and to reinforce the defence from a driver whose rights under the lease have been disregarded and who has subsequently been bombarded with threats from a third party agent whose terms did not feature at all in the resident's AST, nor was his Tenancy Agreement varied to include the onerous terms later foisted on residents. And to warn their client that continuing to process data when they have no cause of action is opening them up to a claim against them and the landholder.

    As such, you encourage the claim to be discontinued and the hearing vacated forthwith.

    Don't make any offer in the letter. It can then feature in your WS about the facts of what happened and the efforts the defendant has made to resolve the dispute without wasting the court's time.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Kind_Of_Irritated
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    So I should include the part about misuse of date, then? Plus...
    an 'objection to processing' data (Section 10 of the DPA applies). The driver's name and address was only provided for the sole purpose of appealing the unfair charge and to inform the parking firm that the driver had a right to pass and re-pass, as was found in the Jopson case, HHJ Harris QC remarking that otherwise, life in a development of flats/houses would be 'unworkable'.

    That won't be detrimental to my argument, will it, if they argue back that they didn't actually access the data? Misuse covers "process" use of it, does it?
  • Kind_Of_Irritated
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    Btw, Coupon-mad, I have concerns about threatening the Management Company with a claim, although the secretary truly deserves a kicking as after I went to see him he wrote a useless letter to them saying I was a resident's relative but he would "not be mediating".

    My son believes the clerk is the one who would have signed the agreement with Link. Him, personally. As far as we know no resident or landlord has a copy of this agreement. No-one apart from the management secretary, that is, who also has premises and TWO car park spaces allocated to his business!

    Is there any point in writing to the Management Company's board members, directors etc and informing them of all of this? I doubt very much if the secretary has told them.
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