Should solar discussions be moved to the Energy board?
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There doesn't seem to be much opposition to a Solar sub-board.
There's also the argument that there does not appear to be any support in favour of making Solar a sub-board:rotfl:
It's the pint half full or half empty argument.
As far as subsidies go if they are there then people will take advantage of them.0 -
As far as FIT payments are concerned, I don't have a problem with subsidising renewables that benefit everyone. I'm opposed to subsidizing renewables that benefit just the owner of the renewables via reduced electricity bills.
But that's just another of the false spin doctor arguments put out against PV. PV systems are grid tied, as such when they generate their power is felt instantaneously by the grid, either as export or offset.
It's a false argument that generation consumed in the property isn't felt by the grid. It's also a mathematical impossibility.
If a PV system starts generating 2kW and it is exported, then the grid has 2kW more available to it, and can reduce demand on FF generators.
If a PV system starts generating 2kW and it is consumed in the property, then the properties demand on the grid will reduce by 2kW. The grid then has 2kW more supply than it needs and can reduce demand on FF generators.
So a grid tied PV system benefits the grid in the same way that a supply side PV farm does, or a supply side FF / nuclear plant does.
Moving on to diversionary switches, I appreciate that these convert leccy into a lower grade product (hot water), but they still offset, via the fuel type that is displaced (leccy E7, gas, oil etc) though this will typically be of a lower value. The anomaly of export payments is unfair, but probably balances the underpayment of export at 50% to most PV'ers. I exported approx 70% of generation last year.
Also, you need to consider how much leccy is diverted. I'd estimate it is roughly equal to grid losses from supply side generation, based on 50% of installs being properties with a hot water tank, 50% of those having diversionary switches, and then those properties being able to divert approx 33% of generation.
It's sad that on a green & ethical board, we have to keep wading through these false (un-ethical?) arguments.
BTW, out of curiosity, did you manage to get your PV system installed afterwards, or were you unable to overcome the planning permission issues relating to your property? Either way I hope the information you gained from the G&E threads was useful.
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
hollie.weimeraner wrote: »There's also the argument that there does not appear to be any support in favour of making Solar a sub-board:rotfl:
It's the pint half full or half empty argument.
As far as subsidies go if they are there then people will take advantage of them.
People are generally more vocal in opposition to something than in support - for the most part, people don't like change. To have zero opposition tacitly means that most people quietly approve. I find your honesty about subsidies to be refreshing, rather than the trite construction of a strawman argument about if someone who opposes FIT payments opposes renewables and wants to destroy the planet or the poor attempts to pretend that FIT payments to individuals that benefit just those individuals are on a par with subsidies to large-scale renewables that benefit everyone. 0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »BTW, out of curiosity, did you manage to get your PV system installed afterwards, or were you unable to overcome the planning permission issues relating to your property? Either way I hope the information you gained from the G&E threads was useful.
Mart.
I'm still in the process of deciding the combination of PV and Thermal panels and then I'll submit the planning permissions. I have gained a lot from MSE, not just solar information on here. I'm not asking for the Solar form to be closed down - far from it, I'm actually asking for its profile to be raised by moving it to a more appropriate place. Newbies to the site are far more likely to discover the solar discussions in the Energy board than down here in Ethical Moneysaving. As I said though, people are opposed to change, often even if that change is to their benefit. EDIT: plus keeping all the solar in one board, it would be easier to find information.0 -
Opposition here to any movement of this to well established forum to any Solar sub forum.
If it ain't broke don't fix it !
Happy where it is thanks.
Nobby.
( happy unethical solar pv'er ).SMA 4000TL Inverter, 17 REC 235PE Panels, South facing, roof angle \ `ish, 3995 watt system.Installed Nov 2011.0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »If a PV system starts generating 2kW and it is consumed in the property, then the properties demand on the grid will reduce by 2kW. The grid then has 2kW more supply than it needs and can reduce demand on FF generators.
So a grid tied PV system benefits the grid in the same way that a supply side PV farm does, or a supply side FF / nuclear plant does.
Mart.
Haha, I love how you ignored the huge benefit to the householder of his reduced 2kw. No, let's talk about the benefit to the 'grid', far more palatable.0 -
theboylard wrote: »Has someone got a doppleganger?
I wondered the same.I have osteoarthritis in my hands so I speak my messages into a microphone using Dragon. Some people make "typos" but I often make "speakos".0 -
Personally, I don't care where the Solar PV threads are but wherever they sit I'm sure that they will still attract the usual posters who just want to drone on and on about why the FIT scheme isn't fair. C'est la vie.0
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The_Green_Hornet wrote: »Personally, I don't care where the Solar PV threads are but wherever they sit I'm sure that they will still attract the usual posters who just want to drone on and on about why the FIT scheme isn't fair. C'est la vie.
and the usual posters drone on about how many kwh they produced that day and how much money they saved on electricity and how much unused solar they diverted into their water tanks.
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... the poorest in society paying a disproportionate amount in green taxes so that the wealthier can install solar ...
Is it time for us all to stand up and sing The Internationale?
The poorest in society pay no income tax. And some of the poorest in society receive benefits.
Many of the poorest in society also receive subsidies such as Winter Fuel Payment up to £300. There is a list of help available.
The average annual fuel bill according to the the Telegraph is £1,255 which includes £7 an annum to cover all FIT payments.
I don't agree with the proposition that the poorest in society do pay proportionately more in "green taxes".I have osteoarthritis in my hands so I speak my messages into a microphone using Dragon. Some people make "typos" but I often make "speakos".0
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