Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

foreign_correspondent · 20 January 2009 at 6:41PM

Has anyone read Jan Fennell? - a lot of people lump her into the CM camp - in my opinion she has some parallel views on leadership, state of mind, calmness and body language - but - this is all done in kind ways.

I have read a couple of her books and she never suggests using prong collars or any other physical punishments - I find her stuff quite interesting and feel it is a kind way of developing leadership - it suits my ethos much better than CM's does.

Rolling your dog could be a very foolish thing to do - if for no other reason than if your dog is anxious that incedent may well be the point where it feels overwhelmed and the point when that anxiety may turn into aggression.

Hawthorn · 20 January 2009 at 7:04PM

I haven't, but I'll have a look FC. To me, prong collars etc should only be used as a very last resort. If there are nicer ways to do it, then brilliant

Di · 20 January 2009 at 7:42PM

i've lost the will to live.:doh:

Hawthorn · 20 January 2009 at 7:45PM

Why, Di?

Di · 21 January 2009 at 10:10AM

if people cant read their/a dogs body language, they have a major gap in the knowledge of their dog.

as pboae said, and i have said before, with CM the dogs attempt appeasement, then shut down when that doesnt work.

i dont agree to the 'hug a hoodie' approach but to suppress the dog does not make it 'rehabilitated'.

hethmar · 21 January 2009 at 10:31AM

I used to love Cesar's programmes and I have his books but I have felt some concern over his techniques on occasions. I find it shocking when he holds a dog down by the neck but again, isnt this what another dog - the alpha dog in the pack would do to show who is boss.

Its a difficult one and I felt choked when he had that little Chi with paralysed legs in the swimming tank and then at the end of the programme we heard she had liver disease and had been pts. I wondered just how much she had suffered and why the rescue and Cesar had not had her checked out at the very beginning.

I have used some of his techniques and they do work with my dogs. The hand firmly on the shoulder or head of one will calm them. Walking in front of them through doors etc. does teach them to stay behind you and treat you with respect.

callywally · 21 January 2009 at 10:49AM

Anyone with any knowledge of dogs body language should be able to see the signs of stress in the dogs that cm handles.lip smacking avoiding eye contact, panting etc, although all dogs of course need exercise cm often wears out dogs by rollerbladeing, running or a treadmill before working with them. many of these dogs are not used to exercise so are exhausted before he starts. He does use prong collars and electric collars which are cruel.
Some of the dogs that he says are in a calm submissive state have shut down because they are to frightened to move, not because he has worked his ''magic'' on them.
Remember you only see a small part of what goes on in these programes.
Please watch these programes carefully and you will see what i mean.
There are far better and kinder ways of training, than he uses.

Hawthorn · 21 January 2009 at 10:51AM

Di wrote: »

if people cant read their/a dogs body language, they have a major gap in the knowledge of their dog.

as pboae said, and i have said before, with CM the dogs attempt appeasement, then shut down when that doesnt work.

i dont agree to the 'hug a hoodie' approach but to suppress the dog does not make it 'rehabilitated'.

Thanks for the clarification Di

I can't really add anything useful to the suppressing/rehabilitation issue, as I have very little experience of dogs with severe issues. Mine has minor ones only, nothing that would require that sort of correction. If a dog is so far gone that in a professionals opinion, a prong collar is appropriate, I would veer towards the opinion of the professional.
I prefer positive reinforcement, sure, but having had an attempt at clicker training, I know how easy it is to positively reinforce at the wrong moment

Akom · 21 January 2009 at 10:56AM

Di wrote: »

if people cant read their/a dogs body language, they have a major gap in the knowledge of their dog.

as pboae said, and i have said before, with CM the dogs attempt appeasement, then shut down when that doesnt work.

i dont agree to the 'hug a hoodie' approach but to suppress the dog does not make it 'rehabilitated'.

I agree with your first part on body language however his approach is not about suppressing the dog only to show it that what the dog finds scary or stressfull needn't be. Sometimes this involves getting the dogs attention first which is not always easy when the dog is in the zone.

Di · 21 January 2009 at 11:08AM

no, his approach is not to suppress the dog, but that is what he does.

dont get me wrong, i believe that he believes that he is encouraging the dog to confront issues. what I see is that dog being forced to confront, unable to avoid or appease and so shuts down.

he says himself that you have to get the dogs attention before he gets to the zone, once in it youve no chance.

what do you think that zone is? i think it is stress overload.

Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

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