New Boiler . .fair quote?

sunnyg · 5 May 2007 at 1:35PM

We need to replace a 30 year old boiler in our bathroom. Apparently, it has limed up and the plumber has already fixed the immersion and put in a new element which has blown once. He said it had touched the build up and over-heated (??). Anyway - he has quoted about £ 1,500 to fit a new one which I think seems a bit steep. What should we expect for our money? The house is a 3 storey 1920's semi in NW London btw - the top room is built in the loft space and has its own (small) tank so this tank on the middle floor is for just one bathroom and the kitchen beneath. He wanted to fit a mega flow for £ 3k but his specialist guy then said this wasn't practical. If there are any words of advice I would be greatful because plumbing is not my forte!

Canucklehead · 5 May 2007 at 5:52PM

Sunnyg: Welcome to MSE. Do you mean £1500 for a new cylinder...if so then the price is steep even for NW London. You need to get in more quotes...ask friends etc for recommendations.

HTH

Corgi Guy

gobby_2 · 6 May 2007 at 1:20PM

Im guessing you mean a new hot water cylinder (not a new boiler) . If so I think thats a heavy price. Likewise get more diagnosis and prices

sunnyg · 6 May 2007 at 2:19PM

Yes, sorry - a new cylinder. What would be a fair price for this kind of work? I guess this is really the bread and butter for most plumbers.

Deleerious · 6 May 2007 at 2:28PM

Ask him to quote you for a simple "copper cylinder". A megaflow is a trade name of Heatrae Sadia... If you were happy with what you had in the past get him / someone to quote for a like for like replacement (as long as they can get access to the cylinder).

If you're after names, perhaps speak to your local plumb center or PTS (plumbing trade supplies) and ask if they know someone who'd be interested in the work.

Without knowing the ins and outs of it a replacement cylinder should cost: between £500 - £600 all in. Cylinder = £175 - £200.00, msclns materials = £35 - 50.00 labour = £280 - £350.00.

Hope this is a good enough guide for you.

Deleerious D

EliteHeat · 6 May 2007 at 8:59PM

London price would be between £750 - £800. Anything greater is just outrageous.

George_Bray · 7 May 2007 at 1:45PM

Screwfix.com (UK) do a 450mm x 1050mm indirect type copper water cylinder for £179 incl VAT.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=10267&ts=41236

You may be able to find one even cheaper elsewhere. This should be more than large enough for one bathroom and a kitchen (as in my house). So if the "London price would be between £750 and £800" (lets say £775) as EliteHeat suggested, this leaves 775 - 179 = £596 for the installation labour. A half-decent, self-respecting, even partially competent plumber should be able to replace a cylinder like that in 2 hours maximum (I'm being generous) so that means the plumber would be charging 596 / 2 = £298 per hour. Nice work if you can get it. What a rip-off. Do they take most people for fools?! It gets much worse with the original quote of £1500, of course. That works out at around £660 PER HOUR for the installation labour (2 hours) with the £179 all included in the £1500.

Ask any plumber how long they will take to do the job. Then let them know what charge out rate it equates to. Can they keep a straight face? Or perhaps they'll have you believe it takes 2 men 3 days to replace a water cylinder.

Regards
George

EliteHeat · 7 May 2007 at 7:18PM

George_Bray wrote: »

Screwfix.com (UK) do a 450mm x 1050mm indirect type copper water cylinder for £179 incl VAT.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=10267&ts=41236

You may be able to find one even cheaper elsewhere. This should be more than large enough for one bathroom and a kitchen (as in my house). So if the "London price would be between £750 and £800" (lets say £775) as EliteHeat suggested, this leaves 775 - 179 = £596 for the installation labour. A half-decent, self-respecting, even partially competent plumber should be able to replace a cylinder like that in 2 hours maximum (I'm being generous) so that means the plumber would be charging 596 / 2 = £298 per hour. Nice work if you can get it. What a rip-off. Do they take most people for fools?! It gets much worse with the original quote of £1500, of course. That works out at around £660 PER HOUR for the installation labour (2 hours) with the £179 all included in the £1500.

Ask any plumber how long they will take to do the job. Then let them know what charge out rate it equates to. Can they keep a straight face? Or perhaps they'll have you believe it takes 2 men 3 days to replace a water cylinder.

Regards
George

I assume from the parts prices that you have not listed that you have not attempted this job before - am I right?.

If not, then I apologise and would ask you to kindly list all the things that can (and do) go wrong when changing a cylinder. I await your comments with interest, but to be honest, not too much hope.

George_Bray · 7 May 2007 at 8:39PM

EliteHeat wrote: »

I await your comments with interest, but to be honest, not too much hope.

Any consumables and minor spares like flanges would be at fairly minimal cost and not impact much on the overall thrust of my argument.

To others - incidentally, the Screwfix cylinder meets British Standard and is high quality. Don't let plumbers fob you off with any yarn that a £179 cylinder is somehow low quality junk and any half decent cylinder will cost you £2000 or something; or indeed a penny more than £179. EliteHeat's point has some validity so let's allow another £25 for minor parts and consumables. The plumbers will still have a lot of explaining to do regarding their labour rate.

Regards
George

EliteHeat · 7 May 2007 at 9:02PM

The overall thrust of your argument is flawed. I notice from your past posts that you have an extremely poor understanding of plumbing, heating and health issues arising from either. Whilst I have no issue with this on an individual basis it certainly becomes an issue when giving incorrect advice to someone who perhaps has even less knowledge than yourself.

I haven't spent a great deal of time on this, but a cursory inspection of your previous posts indicates that you reject government and scientific guidlines regarding the elimination of the legionnaires bacteria and that you dispute the laws of physics regarding the dew point of water and its effect on condensing boilers.

But, back to the original point. I would be obliged if you could take me through the procedure of changing a typcial indirect, unvented HWC and outlining the approximate times needed for each step in the process. This should equate to about 2 hours by your reckoning and will of course include the time taken to survey the job, get to the merchants, acquire the gear, get back to the job, find parking in London, unload etc etc.

After that, I would appreciate the potential problems that can occur and what actions you deem necessary to rectify them.

Remember, you have two hours as of course any competant plumber can do it all in this time.

George_Bray · 8 May 2007 at 12:05AM

EliteHeat wrote: »

The overall thrust of your argument is flawed. I notice from your past posts that you have an extremely poor understanding of plumbing, heating and health issues arising from either. Whilst I have no issue with this on an individual basis it certainly becomes an issue when giving incorrect advice to someone who perhaps has even less knowledge than yourself...I haven't spent a great deal of time on this, but a cursory inspection of your previous posts indicates that you reject government and scientific guidlines regarding the elimination of the legionnaires bacteria and that you dispute the laws of physics regarding the dew point of water and its effect on condensing boilers.

Yes, I'm an easy target as a non-qualified (DIY plumbing) lay person. I don't dispute any laws of physics (of course). I may view RISK differently to you, as in the likelihood of catching Legionnaires disease in a small private house. But this has nothing to do with the rip-off quotes which the OP has received. Rather than me coming up with a job estimate, how about you breaking down your £775 to show how it's justified?

Regards
George

New Boiler . .fair quote?

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