What can/can't be done by tenants to a property?

shelly · 22 December 2006 at 10:05PM

Hi all.

Hubby and I are doing a buy to let mortgage on our current property in order to get the funds for a property we want to buy. We aren't sure yet if this will be done through an agent.
We have never been landlords before so are not sure what can/can't be done to the property by anyone who rents from us.
I *think* (and hope) that we can say NO smokers and NO pets am I right? Also what can/can't they do to the interior/exterior? For example....we have spent alot of time stripping back or replacing skirting boards,door architraves (sp?) and window sills then staining a natural oak colour. Can they come along and paint it all white if they so desire? Whilst we understand that oak/wood isn't everyones taste we are thinking long termish that if we sold the house in the future we would have to strip it all again or replace the woodwork, could we hold back some deposit to pay for this?
Also silly things like light fittings. If they want to change them should we get the ones given back to us that they are changing or can they just bin them?

In the garden......not long ago we paid for it to be re-turfed. If a tenant decided to pull the lawn up and gravel or bark chip it all is that ok?

In essence I'm asking what can be done by tenants inside and out that wouldn't require permission by the landlord. We will be total newbies to this and on the one hand don't want to get taken for a ride and on the other we wouldn't want to impose rules that are simply not acceptable.

Thanks all for any help and advice you can give.

silvercar · 22 December 2006 at 10:46PM

I also became a landlord for the first time this year; its not as harrowing as people have you believe.

All the things you mention would require your permission AFAIK. My tenant asked if she could decorate the hallway, I agreed subject to it being a neutral colour.

Definitely say no smokers and no pets, if thats what you want.

arealhighlander · 22 December 2006 at 11:28PM

As long as you state all of this in your tenancy agreement then it should be fine. If its in the agreement and they do it, then they are then automaticlaly in breach and you can do something about it.

Some rules n regulations you wouldnt think of when you become a Landlord (e.g. you need to get all gas appliances inspected and certified)

Have a look on Google, theres lots of free advice out there.

Angela_D_3 · 22 December 2006 at 11:54PM

People will do as they please in their home and you won't even find out until after they have moved out if you use a letting agency, top tip do it all yourself, credit checks, tenancy and most importantly 3 monthly inspections.

seven-day-weekend · 23 December 2006 at 12:40AM

We have been landllords in the past and have said things like :
Decorating allowed (after asking permission) so long as it is neutral colours and nothing done that a lick of paint can't put right (but if you don't want them to touch your natural wood just say so).
Garden - keep tidy but no taking up lawns or removing mature plants/shrubs.
No smoking/No dogs (we don't mind a cat or another small animal).

But basically it is up to you what you allow and what you don't. Just put it in the tenancy agreement.

bazzzz · 23 December 2006 at 1:07AM

I'm also thinking of becoming a BTL landlord.

The one thing that concerns me is tax.

When are you obliged to inform the inland revenue of your BTL? How much tax do you have to pay?

I know of BTL landlords who claim the inland revenue are not interested. They claim never to have paid tax over a 5-10 year period. Are they talking nonsense?

What happens when you sell? Do people really bother to declare their profits? The BTL I know claim they never have.

Perhaps it's just pub talk.

seven-day-weekend · 23 December 2006 at 3:22AM

bazzzz wrote:

I'm also thinking of becoming a BTL landlord.

The one thing that concerns me is tax.

When are you obliged to inform the inland revenue of your BTL? How much tax do you have to pay?

I know of BTL landlords who claim the inland revenue are not interested. They claim never to have paid tax over a 5-10 year period. Are they talking nonsense?

What happens when you sell? Do people really bother to declare their profits? The BTL I know claim they never have.

Perhaps it's just pub talk.

They probably just lie on their tax returns.

NOT a good idea.

ginger_nuts · 23 December 2006 at 5:10AM

bazzzz wrote:

I'm also thinking of becoming a BTL landlord.

The one thing that concerns me is tax.

When are you obliged to inform the inland revenue of your BTL? How much tax do you have to pay?

I know of BTL landlords who claim the inland revenue are not interested. They claim never to have paid tax over a 5-10 year period. Are they talking nonsense?

What happens when you sell? Do people really bother to declare their profits? The BTL I know claim they never have.

Perhaps it's just pub talk.

you are suppose to inform the inland revenue within 3 months off becoming self employed . I didn't tell them for a year and I got my first tax bill this week , 88 pence .Don't do your own repairs .The inland revenue told me if I did my own repairs I would have to pay self employed National Insurance .I already pay NI under paye .It is easy not to tell the tax man .However when you sell the bank is suppose to report and large sums off money going through bank accounts, money laundering ect .It is possible to legally avoid paying a lot off tax .

Rick62 · 23 December 2006 at 11:53AM

Yes, you can offset all the interest on the mortgage, all your direct costs (agents fees, repairs etc etc) and I believe 10% for general wear and tear. So in practice you can avoid tax legally, or reduce it to a minimal amount.

Gorgeous_George · 23 December 2006 at 1:45PM

I understand that stating 'No pets' is unenforcable as it considered unreasonable because it would include no goldfish for example. Better to state 'No pets without written consent from the Landlord'.
Then, any pets that you consider to be reasonable could be permitted. You could possibly allow a dog or a cat in return for a larger deposit to cover the additional damage these animals are llkely to cause.

No smoking would appear reasonable. As your decorators or gas engineers would consider that the house is their place of work, maybe the wonderful new laws on smoking in public places would cover this as well.

GG

horace_2 · 23 December 2006 at 7:53PM

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Baby bear

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I don't have permission to post on MSE and can't be bothered to register, as I'm happier viewing rather than contributing to the plethora of carcrashes over there.
However this particular thread really !!!!ed me off....

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=333759

Two bloody newbie LL discussing their BTL portfolios and checking whether they have the right to ban their tenants from smoking and keeping pets, one of them also seems to think their tenants are likely to be unable to stop themselves from instantly redecorating the place as soon as they move in. I don't know how we've all resisted...

Having past experience as either a tenant or a mortgage should be a compulsory requirement for a BTL mortgage. Jeysus !!!!!!! Christ I know more about this and I haven't just spent 200 grand of someone else's money buying a !!!!!!! 'pension' with one....

Whoops so angry I said it twice, sorry for the 'tinternet weirdness...

This post has been edited by Baby bear: Yesterday, 11:02 PM

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Oh dear oh dear.
It's that combination at work again.
Plonk, a tempting keyboard and time to spare.
Afflicts most of us here, well most all across the virtual universe.
Of course, some claim "research".

It is all a dream, isn't it?

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Bloody hell, I swear PG has installed cameras here.... that's far too accurate for comfort.

Plonk aside, I'd still be annoyed, I'm currently living in a house with very few curtains and badly fitting doors and windows (so badly fitting you can fit towels in the gaps) and it's !!!!!!! freezing, but you know, the LL didn't like curtains.... told us he took them all down and said he'd take money from our damage deposit if we put any back up. This is the same idiot that is currently letting his lawn mower rust on our lawn because he doesn't trust us with his shed keys. I can almost forgive someone using a house as an investment - it would just be nice if they actually invested something back into it.

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QUOTE(Baby bear @ Dec 22 2006, 11:16 PM)
Bloody hell, I swear PG has installed cameras here.... that's far too accurate for comfort.

Plonk aside, I'd still be annoyed, I'm currently living in a house with very few curtains and badly fitting doors and windows (so badly fitting you can fit towels in the gaps) and it's !!!!!!! freezing, but you know, the LL didn't like curtains.... told us he took them all down and said he'd take money from our damage deposit if we put any back up. This is the same idiot that is currently letting his lawn mower rust on our lawn because he doesn't trust us with his shed keys. I can almost forgive someone using a house as an investment - it would just be nice if they actually invested something back into it.

You shoulda sold that lawnmower when it was worth something. If the LL asked, it was knicked.

No curtains. !!!!!!. He should be supplimenting your heating bills.

Why are you puttin gup with this? I hope you are looking for a new place.

NDL

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QUOTE(Baby bear @ Dec 22 2006, 11:16 PM)
Bloody hell, I swear PG has installed cameras here.... that's far too accurate for comfort.

Plonk aside, I'd still be annoyed, I'm currently living in a house with very few curtains and badly fitting doors and windows (so badly fitting you can fit towels in the gaps) and it's !!!!!!! freezing, but you know, the LL didn't like curtains.... told us he took them all down and said he'd take money from our damage deposit if we put any back up. This is the same idiot that is currently letting his lawn mower rust on our lawn because he doesn't trust us with his shed keys. I can almost forgive someone using a house as an investment - it would just be nice if they actually invested something back into it.

Hmm, sounds like you have one of those LLs at the, shall we say, worthy of some professional analysis, end of the spectrum.
So, what are the window furnishings?
A side effect of the belief in ever continuing HPI does seem to be that many LLs neglect maintenance. As probably do some houseowners.
Which tends to support the argument that, in reality, it's the cost of land that goes up.

It is all a dream, isn't it?

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QUOTE(NDL @ Dec 22 2006, 11:28 PM)
You shoulda sold that lawnmower when it was worth something. If the LL asked, it was knicked.

No curtains. !!!!!!. He should be supplimenting your heating bills.

Why are you puttin gup with this? I hope you are looking for a new place.

NDL

Simple, we found the place in mid Spring...

Nah we're sadly not up for moving just yet, I have a feeling this will be one LL who'll want to hang on to the damage deposit so we won't be able to afford to, particularly as we're hoping to move out of the area, in which case I'd rather only have to fight for one damage deposit at a time. But you know it's tenants who are so shifty and unreliable.

Having said that, the lawnmower isn't on the inventory so we've covered it with a plastic sheet and if he does get pinchie about the deposit the lawnmower moves with us.

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QUOTE(Mushroom @ Dec 22 2006, 11:35 PM)
Hmm, sounds like you have one of those LLs at the, shall we say, worthy of some professional analysis, end of the spectrum.
So, what are the window furnishings?
A side effect of the belief in ever continuing HPI does seem to be that many LLs neglect maintenance. As probably do some houseowners.
Which tends to support the argument that, in reality, it's the cost of land that goes up.

To be honest the LL are just obvious newbies and frankly I think they're on a financial knife edge. The front and bedroom windows have the world's cheapest blinds - with strings that break at least once every week - the windows in the hall, kitchen and bathroom are single glazed with nothing on them at all to keep the heat in - and the LL took the door that was supposed to separate the rooms off the inventory, presumably to put in their new place.

I try not to think too badly of people like this hell they still believe we're looking after the hubbies parent's cat, but it would be nice if LLs like TTRTR didn't goad us renters so much. We're stuck in a mess of their making. And it's a cold mess investment opportunity.

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QUOTE
I *think* (and hope) that we can say NO smokers and NO pets am I right?

I've to laugh at this kind of question. As if there's some sort of law that says "You are allowed to say no smokers and no pets". "I *think*...". Yes, my detailed research has led me to this conclusion. Yeah right.

You can put any restrictions you like in the agreement (unless it's racist/sexist or whatever, obviously).

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QUOTE(Baby Kitten @ Dec 22 2006, 11:50 PM)
I've to laugh at this kind of question. As if there's some sort of law that says "You are allowed to say no smokers and no pets". "I *think*...". Yes, my detailed research has led me to this conclusion. Yeah right.

You can put any restrictions you like in the agreement (unless it's racist/sexist or whatever, obviously).

But if a judge decides they are unfair terms, the agreement isn't worth the paper it's photocopied on. But yeah I also loved the level of research 'think, hope' going into their retirement plan.

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QUOTE(Baby bear @ Dec 22 2006, 11:16 PM)
Bloody hell, I swear PG has installed cameras here.... that's far too accurate for comfort.

Plonk aside, I'd still be annoyed, I'm currently living in a house with very few curtains and badly fitting doors and windows (so badly fitting you can fit towels in the gaps) and it's !!!!!!! freezing, but you know, the LL didn't like curtains.... told us he took them all down and said he'd take money from our damage deposit if we put any back up. This is the same idiot that is currently letting his lawn mower rust on our lawn because he doesn't trust us with his shed keys. I can almost forgive someone using a house as an investment - it would just be nice if they actually invested something back into it.

Has he declared his rental income?

My previous landlords didn't . Drop the inland revenue a line. Might prove interesting.

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QUOTE(Rocco @ Dec 23 2006, 12:00 AM)
Has he declared his rental income?

My previous landlords didn't . Drop the inland revenue a line. Might prove interesting.

I seriously doubt it. I'll save that as a 'don't !!!! with my deposit' leaving gift too.
Is anyone in the market for a lawnmower in the next year or so?

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QUOTE(Baby Kitten @ Dec 22 2006, 11:50 PM)
I've to laugh at this kind of question. As if there's some sort of law that says "You are allowed to say no smokers and no pets". "I *think*...". Yes, my detailed research has led me to this conclusion. Yeah right.

You can put any restrictions you like in the agreement (unless it's racist/sexist or whatever, obviously).

You can put any restrictions you like in the agreement, but they may well be unfair clauses. I thought that a blanket ban on pets was one such clause, but a quick check hasn't given me a firm answer on that one.

Billy Shears

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"Sure, let's go back to my place."

"Hey what ya doin? The landlord doesn't let anyone smoke in here"

"It's only non smokin guests I'm afraid"

"Hey, where ya goin?"

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QUOTE(Baby bear @ Dec 23 2006, 12:00 AM)
But if a judge decides they are unfair terms, the agreement isn't worth the paper it's photocopied on. But yeah I also loved the level of research 'think, hope' going into their retirement plan.

Yeah, of course, but it's the whole "am I allowed" thing that's amusing. It's like when you hear "But they wouldn't be allowed to do that.", when in fact you're not allowed to murder people yet it still happens.

If she disallows smoking, what's she going to do if she finds out that they've been smoking? Give them detention?

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This annoys me so a few reasons. I understand WHY a landlord would want their precious BTL protected from the horrors of a fluffy kitten, but the whole thing is a shambles IMO for this very reason

The law should be designed around landlords not having a damn say in what we do with our lives. Of course, they should be protected as much as possible against people digging holes and cooking in open fires in their floors, or ruining expensive sofas they've provided, but current legislation means these amateur !!!!!! can dictate how other people live their lives

Its none of their business how their tenants live, we should have a system that protects the rights of the individual to live however they want, landlords should be forced to provide a service, not dictate how others live their lives

Sadly, all the property !!!!!! thats been shoved down their throats, and the laws currently in place, mean they feel they can pick and choose only societies healthiest and wealthiest, so as their precious property doesnt get dirtied by the proles

If some kind of legislation was brought in of course, the number of amateur muppets would plummet, benefitting all FTB's currently renting who cannot afford to buy

If I were in charge, I'd make owning second homes limited only to those professional organisations that can do so without the need to mortgage, and a tax system would be in place that would discourage second home ownership, flipping etc etc, I'd stop BTL mortgages NOW

I'd also ensure a return to long term tenancies, where tenants cannot be thrown out if they pay the rent. Put the properties back in the hands of professionals, which would bring prices back down on FTB properties, and those who had to/wanted to rent, could do so comfortably knowing the property was owned by a professional and they could stay as long as they wanted if they payed up on time, and lived within the law

Stumbled across some crap yesterday with a flamboyant camp property 'advisor' interviewing a farm owner and his bored wife who were "property developers", using their priviledged date of births to buy and rent out houses, she was adding her personal touch, straight out of some glossy amateur property developer weekly, no wonder she didn't want commoners in their messing up her fluffy cushions

We must stop this !!!!!!! obsession with property now, so the rest of us can get on with buying ourselves a home to live in and starting our own families

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A friend of mine in Sweden told me that she can rent a house from an agency for the rest of her life and it's difficult for them to chuck her out. She is free to decorate and do what she wants. All within reason of course. Why couldn't we have such controls in this country?

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QUOTE(abc @ Dec 23 2006, 04:27 PM)
A friend of mine in Sweden told me that she can rent a house from an agency for the rest of her life and it's difficult for them to chuck her out. She is free to decorate and do what she wants. All within reason of course. Why couldn't we have such controls in this country?

We used to

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QUOTE(abc @ Dec 23 2006, 04:27 PM)
A friend of mine in Sweden told me that she can rent a house from an agency for the rest of her life and it's difficult for them to chuck her out. She is free to decorate and do what she wants. All within reason of course. Why couldn't we have such controls in this country?

Possibly because on balance it isn't a vote-winner to have such controls? Things may change after a crash if BTL becomes very unpopular.

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Good post Nick...

Totally sums up how I feel.

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QUOTE(abc @ Dec 23 2006, 04:27 PM)
A friend of mine in Sweden told me that she can rent a house from an agency for the rest of her life and it's difficult for them to chuck her out. She is free to decorate and do what she wants. All within reason of course. Why couldn't we have such controls in this country?

We used to have them, but they resulted in an extreme shortage of rental properties. So, they went crazy the other way, instead of looking at how other countries regulate to keep both parties happy, and we're left with the current mess.

What can/can't be done by tenants to a property?

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