What can/can't be done by tenants to a property?

olly300

shelly wrote:

In essence I'm asking what can be done by tenants inside and out that wouldn't require permission by the landlord. We will be total newbies to this and on the one hand don't want to get taken for a ride and on the other we wouldn't want to impose rules that are simply not acceptable.

Thanks all for any help and advice you can give.

As the law stands in England and Wales tenants have a right to have quiet enjoyment of a property. Therefore clauses in tenancy agreements simply saying no smoking, no pets, no re decoration etc. cannot be enforced unless the leasehold of the property states otherwise i.e. a flat lease that says no pets. You can put the clauses in a tenancy agreement but a knowledgable tenant (like I have been) will know exactly what they can and cannot do. (To be honest I've questioned all LL before I rented from them and if they have seemed to know very little I don't bother with them.)

The best thing to do is to check that that any potential tenants like the decor and the garden when they are viewing it , are not smokers (if you are non-smoker you can smell them quite easily) and don't have any pets before they take the tenancy.

Unless the place is a real mess or the walls are painted in dark colours most tenants cannot be bothered redocorating simply because it cost them money, time and hassle. However as clutton said you should simply say if you want to redecorate anything then they need to show you the paint colours etc before they do it otherwise you will charge them to put the property back to the original state it was in when they rented it.

Most tenants with pets will be honest with you and say they have a pet. So you shouldn't have a problem with this if you say they can't have a pet and to be honest the pets you don't want are anything that's not in a cage or a tank.

Lots of people now lie about whether they smoke because no one likes smokers in their homes. Plus also people will have vistors who smoke so simply saying "no smoking" isn't really enforceable and would be considered an unfair term if contested in court because of the vistor aspect i.e. if I have a vistor who turns up at my house and I let them in and they start smoking without asking me I am in breach of my tenancy agreement. Therefore it's vital that you meet all the people moving into the property first, say you don't like people to smoke inside the property and don't put this clause down in writing. BTW no tenancy agreement I've had or checked for friends'/colleagues has this clause in it.

You can't stop a tenant putting rubbish in a garden during their tenancy (unless it attracts vermin and therefore causes a nuisance to the neighbours) or neglecting the garden. The best thing to avoid arguments about keeping the garden neat is to make the garden as simple as possible to maintain, and if their is a lawn either employ a gardener (or do it yourself). Most tenants are happy not to have to do the garden themselves and also having someone look after the garden will allow you to keep an eye on any tenant throwing rubbish in the garden. Normal rubbish that tends to end up in gardens is BBQ stuff and old white goods.

Have a read of this:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/DAAEFE58-1AAB-422A-AFED-BDE6C654A4EE/0/oft356.pdf

page 77 and a bit onwards gives you examples of illegal clauses.

bazzzz

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

but no tax would be payable if there were no profit i.e. if it cost you more to run the property than you received in rent.
:

Excellent point.

But the sort of landlords I 've been speaking to are amateur btls (ie they have a full time job and have perhaps one or two properties on the side) unlike the landlords on this site ,whom I get the impression are full time professionals in it for the long term.

I get the impression the people I've been talking to feel secure not declaring anything because they are already on the taxman's radar paying tax on their full time job. It must be very easy in thse circumstances not to pay taxon their btls. How will HM Revenue know about your BTL on the side?

They won't. Provided someone does not dob them in it. And with 700,000 new btls since 99 this is a major issue IMO.

chant1l

In answer to the original question you may be tempted to let them have the following:
1)A fluffy kitten
2) A fluffy puppy
Or to do the following;
1) Lay new decking
2)repair a kitchen
3)fit new carpets
4) fit laminate
5)redecorate to pastel colours
6)etc

My advice is don't, and tell them this upfront. The fluffy pet will pee everywhere and destroy carpets,skirtings, furniture, etc and the place will stink which new tenants will be loathed to move in to. All you have to do is replace all of the above...
The DIY will be done with the assistance of their best mate (who is always a professional) and will be done with the aid of and old toothbrush, stickytape,pritt and bargain bucket green gloss paint. The carpet gets painted, along with the cieling and the kitchen units/sink/tiling/sockets/doors/
All of which will be done in the first ten minutes of the tenancy, two weeks before they decide they don't like it - want to charge you for it and move on to their next project....

I always say no, and have had all of the above done to and removed from my properties.....
You may feel unreasonable doing so but having your first property destroyed by bodge will soon put paid to that.

daphne_descends

chant1l, that's quite a judgement on tenants who rent. If you're a BTL LL I do wonder why if your tenants are that awful?

prudryden

fac73 wrote:

chant1l, that's quite a judgement on tenants who rent. If you're a BTL LL I do wonder why if your tenants are that awful?

I am certain that Chant is stressing only the fact that you do have to be careful what you allow tenants to do. It is better to say no to all these in the contract, and then give them permission later if you want. It's easier to change a NO to a YES, than a YES to a NO.

Nenen

olly300 wrote:

As the law stands in England and Wales tenants have a right to have quiet enjoyment of a property. Therefore clauses in tenancy agreements simply saying no smoking, no pets, no re decoration etc. cannot be enforced unless the leasehold of the property states otherwise i.e. a flat lease that says no pets. You can put the clauses in a tenancy agreement but a knowledgable tenant (like I have been) will know exactly what they can and cannot do. (To be honest I've questioned all LL before I rented from them and if they have seemed to know very little I don't bother with them.)

Most tenants with pets will be honest with you and say they have a pet. So you shouldn't have a problem with this if you say they can't have a pet and to be honest the pets you don't want are anything that's not in a cage or a tank.

Thanks for a really helpful post and link Olly...:beer: you obviously have a great deal of knowledge and experience of renting! Therefore, what advice could you give me, a would-be renter and the owner of a small ,very well behaved dog and two equally well behaved cats? All our pets are adult, neutured and well trained. They certainly do NOT urinate in the house and are regularly groomed etc. Up until now we've owned our own house and I certainly haven't/wouldn't let them damage anything. How can I persuade a LL that I am a responsible pet owner/tenant and that our animals wouldn't be a problem?

prudryden

Nenen wrote:

Thanks for a really helpful post and link Olly...:beer: you obviously have a great deal of knowledge and experience of renting! Therefore, what advice could you give me, a would-be renter and the owner of a small ,very well behaved dog and two equally well behaved cats? All our pets are adult, neutured and well trained. They certainly do NOT urinate in the house and are regularly groomed etc. Up until now we've owned our own house and I certainly haven't/wouldn't let them damage anything. How can I persuade a LL that I am a responsible pet owner/tenant and that our animals wouldn't be a problem?

It was a good post, but when you read the OFT, keep in mind that these are guidance notes only and that the introduction does say that it is for the courts to decide. The OFT doesn't make laws only parliament.

daphne_descends

prudryden wrote:

I am certain that Chant is stressing only the fact that you do have to be careful what you allow tenants to do. It is better to say no to all these in the contract, and then give them permission later if you want. It's easier to change a NO to a YES, than a YES to a NO.

Yes, you're right, and I'm sure there are plenty of horror stories about tenants treating the place as they wish without asking permission. In fact, the person I first shared this place with treated it like dirt, with no respect for the place. There's just a fine line because respect and being made to feel 'lucky' that you are 'allowed' to live somewhere.

Personally I would never assume that I could do anything in a rented property without asking as it's simply not my house. So in return I expect to be trusted not to take the mickey, if you see what I mean.

My only gripe in general is the amount of 'no pets' lettings, it makes me wonder if all pet owners are supposed to be house owners, but this is a good example of what you said, turning a no into a yes when the LL finds out you have goldfish, for example.

clutton_2

i have had a couple of tenants who have wanted pets, and i have asked for 6 weeks deposit rather than 4 weeks, in case i had to replace carpets totally - they thought that was reasonable. If a prospective tenant came to me with 6 weeks cash deposit, i would probably accept it - after having called at their current accommodation to see how they looked after that !!!