What is and isn't acceptable on this board.

MSE_Martin · 22 February 2005 at 2:32PM

I think it is important for me to clarify exactly what is and what isn't permissible on this board.

What it is for

This board is a discussion of all issues surrounding health, diet, nutrition and how they relate to MoneySaving. Discussing medical insurance policies, cheaper ways to see consultants, cashback for alternative health treatments, how to get specific medication cheaper (legally) are all perfectly acceptable forms of discussion.

What it is not for

It is very specifically and strictly not for the discussion of what to do in the event of certain medical problems. Please do not ask questions about this. If you're having problems use facilities such as NHS direct and your doctor to go and talk through what you should do.

Even though there are medically qualified people sometimes visiting these forums, I would ask them to restrain from answering specific medical questions.

Even though you know you are medically qualified, others don't. There is no way of proving it and this leads us open to somebody coming on, pretending to be a doctor when they're not and giving advice.

As such it is very important there is a blanket rule that nobody no matter who (not even Robert Winston) should be giving any form of medical advice or detailing what to do on these boards.

I am aware that some discussions have slipped down this route in the past couple of weeks. Well, this is a moratorium. We're starting afresh from here.

And please don't think that this is a telling off, of any variety. It's just a clarification of what is permissible and what's not. I wanted to see how the board developed for a couple of weeks before writing about this, and I think it's important to say this at this point.

Please do ask any questions here and I will do my best to respond.

Martin

Fran · 22 February 2005 at 4:33PM

Perhaps you could state a polite way of telling people this that everyone can use?

Ted_Hutchinson · 22 February 2005 at 6:40PM

While I understand the reasons behind this policy I would like to explain to the forum moderators my personal history and why I think the over-reliance on the medical profession isn't in the public's best interests.

Since I had Polio at the age of 5 not one medically qualified person has ever told me about the late effects of polio. If I relied on any of my doctors I still wouldn't be aware that the disabling consequences I suffer are a result of my previous polio.

Recently I suffered an irreversible failure of bladder function which means I now have to self-catheterise 5 times a day. While a quick google search will produce ample evidence of the reasons for the connection between the late effects of polio and a neurogenic bladder it remains the case that my consultant cannot be arsed to check the facts in the public domain and prefers to regard my condition as idiopathic.

A similar pattern of gross ignorance and sheer stupidity has surrounded the chronic fatigue I have suffered for years. Only relatively recently have I discovered the benefits for those with the late effects of polio of the supplement L'Carnitine. The use of this has changed my life so that from hardly being able to get out of bed I am now able to get around the house and garden. It seems harsh and unreasonable to me to prevent links to peer reviewed scientific research For example to that supporting the use of L'carnitine in relation to those suffering the late effects of polio, or indeed the chronic fatigue suffered by those with MS or CFS being given here.

It was through a forum link that I discovered the reasons behind my progressive deterioration. No amount of doctors visits would have enlightened me. As far as I am concerned it is very important that each individual takes responsibility for their own health and keeps abreast of the current research and understands the limitations of current medicines and therapies available through the NHS. While I understand that this site cannot accept responsibility for the quality of the information provided by the posters I feel the restrictions on posting outlined above are unreasonable and unjustified. In my view it is wrong to prevent people being given access to information which may well improve their lives. Providing the poster has checked there is no medical risk involved so the recommendations are safe and the readers are in a position to assess the provenance of the information provided they surely must be regarded as sufficiently mature to proceed or not withor without the advice and support of their health professionals as they choose.

Ted_Hutchinson · 22 February 2005 at 11:14PM

It is very difficult to give good advice online in relation to any aspect of life and a face to face consultation with an appropriately qualified expert will almost always produce better results.

However, discussing the possible pros and cons of any situation with others who either have experienced that situation themselves or who are able to provide links to the latest research or to nationally recognised sources of independent guidance will enable the reader to understand the issues better and be properly informed, so that when they come to discuss the matter with their professional advisers in a one to one situation they will be better able to take on board the information and advice they are being offered.

Getting advice from a professional, whether it's financial, medical or welfare rights, is always a steep learning curve and any efforts you have made to understand what they are telling you either before or after the interview will help that information better become part of your understanding.

In many ways the patient is the expert in the way their condition affects them yet it is rare for a health professional to take this on board. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that online advice should ever be taken as gospel but if people have concerns about their health it is reasonable for an exchange of views and experiences to take place and for mature adults to be solely responsible for the actions they take with their own bodies. Relying solely on the expertise of the medical profession can be as dangerous as relying solely on any other source of advice.

trafalgar_2 · 22 February 2005 at 11:20PM

Ted_Hutchinson wrote:

and for mature adults to be solely responsible for the actions they take with their own bodies..

Prehaps this is where the problem lies,maybe martins concern is that it cannot be guaranteed that 'mature' 'responsible' or even 'adults' will be using the information if it is on this site.

mini · 22 February 2005 at 11:38PM

The health board has been rather vague up until now, if someone posts about xyz disease for specific advice, could we change their request to whether anybody knows of any relevant research articles or useful discussion forums? Rather than asking them not to ask here, maybe a more friendly, useful & safer way of steering away fom actual personal advice giving

mini:cool: with her night vision goggles on as she ventures through the darkness trying to find her way to Board Guide school

trafalgar_2 · 22 February 2005 at 11:41PM

mini wrote:

The health board has been rather vague up until now, if someone posts about xyz disease for specific advice, could we change their request to whether anybody knows of any relevant research articles or useful discussion forums? Rather than asking them not to ask here, maybe a more friendly, useful & safer way of steering away fom actual personal advice giving

mini:cool: with her night vision goggles on as she ventures through the darkness trying to find her way to Board Guide school

That's a good idea mini

erm,there's a school:eek:

Fran · 23 February 2005 at 3:18AM

I agree with Ted on this. I don't see the difference between someone telling a person in a post the best way (in their opinion) to get out of debt - especially the new help board for debt, and someone saying the best way (in their opinion) to improve their health and therefore almost certainly their financial situation.

With so many eyes on this site there will always be someone to point out where someone has overstepped the mark.

A lot of people with depression and related illnesses that have been discussed on this site before, won't be able to get out of bed, let alone go to a doctor, also some people have a mistrust of doctors and it seems like a flippant reply to someone with that kind of problem to just say go to the doctor (as if they didn't know that or haven't already been to their doctor). The equivalent on the debt help board would be for everyone to just say "go to the free debt advice places", without putting in the personal experience which is what people are interested in for support and managing their situations. The same applies to people with depression etc., these threads have brought up a lot of highly researched information from Ted and others and I would say that the type of replies from them come with perhaps even more research and knowledge than people replying to a debt thread just because they have been in that situation themselves.

If Ted's (and others) replies give someone the direction and incentive to find out how to alleviate their depression or other conditions and by doing so they are more able to cope with their finances then to me that seems just as relevant to moneysaving as helping someone get out of debt.

Glad · 23 February 2005 at 8:24AM

I would love to have a board where people could post their problems and I along with others could try to help, I have a vast range of knowledge and experience, and each of my answers would be well researched before being posted.
However I know who I am, do you?
What is there to stop someone posting on here, posing as a medical professional and gathering info off the web to post their replies, what if one day they mistakenly or deliberately posted some advice that was wrong or even dangerous, who is held liable?

That is not to say that people can't pose their questions and concerns over the internet, just not on this site, this is a site dealing with moneysaving and yes on some of the boards non-money topics do get discussed but they don't have the same potential to have dangerous implications. If people are finding this site to answer their money problems then I'm sure they can search for sites that are more geared toward their specific medical problems.

Up until now I was quite happy to continue letting people discuss and chat about their conditions and receive support from other site members, but due to site rules Mini and I were trying to stop the giving of specific medical/treatment advice. However after pointing out Andrea's announcement of the rules, some posters thought to find a lot of these chattier type threads and post on them that discussing medical issues is not allowed, without seeing the difference between support and actual medical advice.
So following on from this uncertaintity Martin has drawn up and posted the above rules. Ultimately it is his site and his decision.

pickle · 23 February 2005 at 9:02AM

I think that Martin has a point. He (and the board) have a responsibility (and is probably a legal responsibility) to ensure that someone doesn't take advice from here and something happen to them. I, for one, take notice of this as i think it's easy to forget that someone might read it and not perhaps check their own medications or medical history. You can't assume that everyone has common sense or the knowledge of their own symptoms and the ability to accurately diagnose themselves. I also agree that the NHS and GPs often don't provide adequate explanation or delve into the medical problems people have due to various reasons (eg. can't be bothered, lack of time, poor communication skills etc). I guess the only option left is to lobby MPs to make sure that the system gets improved. In the meantime, independently researching the internet for medically based research rather than ad-hoc advice is an option.

queensway_boy · 23 February 2005 at 9:30AM

glad wrote:

I would love to have a board where people could post their others could try to help, I have a vast range of knowledge and experience, and each of my answers would be well researched before being posted.
However I know who I am, do you?

Yes we do know who we are.

What is and isn't acceptable on this board.

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