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Should we exchange or walk? (sorry - long!)
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ukmaggie45
Posts: 2,968 Forumite
We viewed a house way back in July and fell in love with it. Went back the next day, and then offered on it, just under the 3% stamp duty cut off, so £249,950. Agents contacted us to say that we could have it for £249,999 plus £2,500 for carpets, curtains, white goods (fridge, dishwasher and washing machine) and the lawnmower. Stupidly we agreed without consulting our solicitor.
When we did speak to our sol she said that HMRC would look very hard at that, and we would need receipts to prove that the goods were worth it. Agents told us vendor had thrown receipts away. Sol said we could get an independent valuation, vendor refused.
We had exchanged numbers with vendor so we could stay in touch. Vendor called us while we were on holiday, and spent 3/4 hour talking to OH trying to persuade us that we should pay the full 2,500 for the stuff she intended leaving. But we couldn't as we don't want to get on the wrong side of HMRC.
Couple of days after that we had a phone call from our sol to say that vendor's sol had been in touch with her and had told her to tell us that we were not to contact the vendor ourselves again.
Deal then was that vendor would strip the house completely of everything, and we get it for 249999. We refused. Finally it was 750 for the carpets and blinds only. Oh, and the other stipulation was no negotiation following survey.
Meanwhile we had a full structural survey done. Various things need doing, but nothing too horrendous, though we're still to get the gas and electric checked. Boiler is old, but has been regularly serviced, so prob will need replacing in next few years. OH noticed on second visit that there are 2 different gauges of pipe to the radiators too. Some small amount of damp, and possibly a few of the cavity wall ties have failed and need replacing. But basically the surveyor thought it was basically sound, and even sounded like he liked it himself.
Vendor at this point hadn't found anywhere to move to, so nothing much happened for a while.
Also the house went back on Rightmove as available again around this time. (thank goodness for property bee!) OH phoned agents who said it was "a mistake". Can't say we believe them, they have behaved unprofessionally all along, trying to get us to break the law over the stamp duty, and telling us that they had just had someone pay over £6000 for fixtures and fittings with no problems.
Surveyor suggested we should get a drains check as there are a lot of trees on the site. Drain surveyor went in last week, we're still to see the report, but over the phone he's told OH that there is some root damage to the drains, under the patio, and he reckons it'll be around £1000 to fix it.
It was really difficult organising the drain man to go in, as he had to contact the agents, who then gave his number to vendor, who then called him to arrange an appointment. And we still have to get gas and electricity checked.
We have been trying to get in to measure up the house, and also to have another look - not seen it since July. Agent this morning told us to ring vendor's solicitor. OH got onto our sol then, who said we're not allowed to speak to vendors sol, and she doesn't understand why the agents don't sort it out.
We loved the house when we first saw it, but now it just has become such a hassle I feel like pulling out. We liked vendor, and thought they liked us, but the change came when we refused to buy the fixtures and fittings (OK, I know strictly speaking they are called chattels, but you know what I mean).
We did not pressure vendor in any way while they took time to find somewhere to move to. We asked to go back 2 weeks ago to measure up etc, agents didn't even bother ringing us back to tell us it wasn't convenient, we put off going away for several days waiting over the weekend, OH called agents on the Monday to be told that vendor had been packing so place was in chaos.
We are cash buyers, and are rather cheesed off at being messed around so much.
Oh yes, there's also a clause in the paperwork that says if we want to access property between exchange and completion we have to pay £50 to vendor's solicitor to arrange it. Is that normal?
Actually now I've written all that down, I'm really feeling more inclined to walk than exchange, but would like to know what the helpful folks here think.
When we did speak to our sol she said that HMRC would look very hard at that, and we would need receipts to prove that the goods were worth it. Agents told us vendor had thrown receipts away. Sol said we could get an independent valuation, vendor refused.
We had exchanged numbers with vendor so we could stay in touch. Vendor called us while we were on holiday, and spent 3/4 hour talking to OH trying to persuade us that we should pay the full 2,500 for the stuff she intended leaving. But we couldn't as we don't want to get on the wrong side of HMRC.
Couple of days after that we had a phone call from our sol to say that vendor's sol had been in touch with her and had told her to tell us that we were not to contact the vendor ourselves again.
Deal then was that vendor would strip the house completely of everything, and we get it for 249999. We refused. Finally it was 750 for the carpets and blinds only. Oh, and the other stipulation was no negotiation following survey.
Meanwhile we had a full structural survey done. Various things need doing, but nothing too horrendous, though we're still to get the gas and electric checked. Boiler is old, but has been regularly serviced, so prob will need replacing in next few years. OH noticed on second visit that there are 2 different gauges of pipe to the radiators too. Some small amount of damp, and possibly a few of the cavity wall ties have failed and need replacing. But basically the surveyor thought it was basically sound, and even sounded like he liked it himself.
Vendor at this point hadn't found anywhere to move to, so nothing much happened for a while.
Also the house went back on Rightmove as available again around this time. (thank goodness for property bee!) OH phoned agents who said it was "a mistake". Can't say we believe them, they have behaved unprofessionally all along, trying to get us to break the law over the stamp duty, and telling us that they had just had someone pay over £6000 for fixtures and fittings with no problems.
Surveyor suggested we should get a drains check as there are a lot of trees on the site. Drain surveyor went in last week, we're still to see the report, but over the phone he's told OH that there is some root damage to the drains, under the patio, and he reckons it'll be around £1000 to fix it.
It was really difficult organising the drain man to go in, as he had to contact the agents, who then gave his number to vendor, who then called him to arrange an appointment. And we still have to get gas and electricity checked.
We have been trying to get in to measure up the house, and also to have another look - not seen it since July. Agent this morning told us to ring vendor's solicitor. OH got onto our sol then, who said we're not allowed to speak to vendors sol, and she doesn't understand why the agents don't sort it out.
We loved the house when we first saw it, but now it just has become such a hassle I feel like pulling out. We liked vendor, and thought they liked us, but the change came when we refused to buy the fixtures and fittings (OK, I know strictly speaking they are called chattels, but you know what I mean).
We did not pressure vendor in any way while they took time to find somewhere to move to. We asked to go back 2 weeks ago to measure up etc, agents didn't even bother ringing us back to tell us it wasn't convenient, we put off going away for several days waiting over the weekend, OH called agents on the Monday to be told that vendor had been packing so place was in chaos.
We are cash buyers, and are rather cheesed off at being messed around so much.
Oh yes, there's also a clause in the paperwork that says if we want to access property between exchange and completion we have to pay £50 to vendor's solicitor to arrange it. Is that normal?
Actually now I've written all that down, I'm really feeling more inclined to walk than exchange, but would like to know what the helpful folks here think.
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Comments
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I would say if you really love the house and are certain it's the one for you do not let these people put you off. It is probably what they want so they can try and get some other mug to pay a ridiculous amount for their chattels!
Of course they liked you originally, you were giving them exactly what they wanted. Sadly people can often turn when they do not get what they want. :mad:
Have they actually found somewhere to move to now and is an exchange imminent?
I have no idea on the £50 to view between exchange and completion but I would find this highly suspicious if it was me given some of the goings on you have encountered to date.
If they are truly being so awkward I would try and keep everything between your solicitors and have little or no dealings with the vendor and the EA.
Ultimately you could test your real enthusiasm for the house by seeing what else is out there on the market. You could have just as many problems with any house you buy though sadly as the whole buying/sellig system is a total joke these days!
Good luck
Offer accepted - 4th July
Own sale completed - 5th September
Finally exchanged - 30th October :j:T:j
Completing on Friday 13th! :rotfl:0 -
Maggie,
I can't believe as cash buyers you've been treated so callously. I think they've forgotten what a precious commodity you are these days. Maybe you could push a note throught the vendor's door and remind them of this and say if they don't call with a time and date for you to get in to measure up then the deal is off. I'm sure there are still bargains to be had, but I can appreciate your reluctance having spent time, energy and money on it. The way I see it is that you should be calling the shots in this deal and they should be grateful and not awkward.
Good luck with whatever you decide - I'd be tempted to at least reduce your offer by the cost of the drains and what you estimate for the rest of the works.0 -
Ultimately, no-one can tell you what to do here.
It depends on house much you want the house. (You say you fell in love with it)
It also depends on what other houses are on the market. Is there anything else for sale that you like as much or more?
I've never heard of being charged £50 to access the property between exchange and completion... Maybe others have?
If you do decide to pull out - Remember 2 things:
1) The EA may blacklist you
2) There's no going back to this property, the vendors will see this as a cardial sin and you'll basically be burning what ever bridges are left.
Good luck whatever you decide.I love giving home made gifts, which one of my children would you like? :A 0 -
I would keep looking around and only pull out if you find somewhere better. I agree with the other comments about not letting the Vendors put you off. Once you are past the point of completion, you won't have to deal with them again, although you will be in a house you love.0
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I understand how you're feeling, we almost pulled out of our sale because of similar experiences. As everyone else has said it can only be you who decides what you do.... but if I were you I'd write to the EA (I don't know about you but by this point I had the email addresses for pretty much the entire office), I'd be clear about what you want (to drop the £50 charge, to set and exchange date, what you expect to be included and the price you are willing to pay etc) I'd tell them that this in non-negotiable and if it is not agreed you are walking away.
Obviously only do this if you are prepared to walk away, we were and it worked in our favour. In my case I found it was the EA being difficult not the vendor, when I started talking to them directly it all went a lot better. Best of luck!0 -
If you're prepared to walk away, don't do it before offering to exchange but only on your conditions - you are the buyer after all!
I'd ask for all the £2500 worth of stuff you mentioned to be included for nothing, and £1000 off for the drain problem. They won't like it but will they risk losing a cash buyer?For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.0 -
they are taking the ****
Get the contacts changed to give a minimum of 1 access a week between Exchange and Completion.
Also get a clause in that that have to make good after the removal of anything you are not buying
Check they are leaving the light bulbs.
keep looking for places they are getting cheaper you could end up paying less for more.0 -
Am it right then in thinking then that you're paying £249,999 plus £750? To be fair, £4250 is quite a lot of money for white goods and curtains - you can get brand new and decent for that, so the vendor is losing out somewhat so they might feel let down by you - I guess that's understandable even if it isn't directly you fault.
It might be worth dropping a note to the vendor just stating that you understand why they might want to go through the EA on everything but that you are finding it really quite complicated and are meeting obstacles that is making this process much more difficult and slowing things down. If you could make a little list for them of what it is that you need then ask them if they can contact the agent to arrange, or you are still open to talking to them if they are happy to talk to you. Just make it a really pleasant note - you never know what people are thinking when everything goes through EAs etc - they're often just as anxious as you - I do find that being able to talk really helps, even when things appear to be breaking down you'll often find that the vendor had no clue and thinks it's your fault things are dragging.
It might be the agents that have stopped you talking - which of course they have no right to do.
You don't buy the house complete with solicitors, EAs and vendors so once it's all done, it's all done. You are getting the house for a little less than anticiapted, albeit the niggling bits as well which the vendor may never have negotiated on anyway. It does wipe the shine, but you'll have forgotten the worst of it once you've moved in.Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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Hi there everyone, wow, what a lot of replies already! Thank you all. :A :T
OH just called back to say our sol had been back in touch. She said the £50 thing is not for just viewing but eg access for workmen, like getting the drains fixed or whatever. She called the estate agents for us, and they have now left a message on vendor's answer phone to arrange a viewing.
Sol also said she'd never come across anyone before who had been quite as obstructive.
Sweetcaz, vendor has found somewhere now, and was pressuring us for fast exchange and completion. We won't exchange until we see the report from the drains test, and then we'll see. We're going to see another house tomorrow, and the agent concerned mentioned another one we might like to take a look at, so will have a quick nosey for if it's on Rightmove.
Jenny74, we did fall in love with the house when we originally saw it, but that's so long ago now that we're falling out of love. :rolleyes: It's a nice house, but it's soured with all the bad feeling. And it's small - we'll prob have to get new furniture as ours prob won't fit. The more I think about it the more I feel that it's still overpriced. But it "spoke" to us when we saw it first - I'm sure you know what I mean!
When you mention the EA blacklisting us, why would they do that? We are serious buyers, just sick of being messed around. OH wonders if there's some family dynamics going on - son still lives at home. When vendor threatened to take everything from the house (carpets and blinds as well as the rest of the stuff) I definitely got the feeling of a hissy fit happening. :rolleyes:
Plus when we got the fixtures and fittings list vendor hadn't filled in the light fittings. Sol sent it back to be filled in, and we got it in the post this morning. They are mostly going, but the weird thing is the kitchen light fitting is being taken - I can't remember the light there, I thought it was downlighters (though may be confusing it with the bathroom). All will be replaced with a plain rose fitting and bulb. The curtain pole is going from the living room, all the curtains are going, down to the shower curtain. It comes across as being spiteful, and I find myself wondering just what sort of state we'll find the place in if we do buy. :eek:
keith969, I don't think we're up to asking for the stuff to be left. TBH I prefer my own fridge, dishwasher and washing machine anyway! I do think that it might be fair to ask for a reduction for the drains - I think OH and I will be having a very l-o-o-o-ng talk this evening! :rotfl: Just hate the whole thought of having to deal with getting drains sorted on top of everything else.
OH is thinking we might go and see the agents and ask if they know what's going on. He only works three days a week now so we might be able to do that tomorrow.
Sorry this is all a bit disjointed! My brain hurts! And feel confused! 
Maggie0 -
Doozergirl wrote: »Am it right then in thinking then that you're paying £249,999 plus £750? To be fair, £4250 is quite a lot of money for white goods and curtains - you can get brand new and decent for that, so the vendor is losing out somewhat so they might feel let down by you - I guess that's understandable even if it isn't directly you fault.
We're paying £249,999 plus £750 for carpets and blinds. Vendor is taking the curtains, and the curtain pole from the living room. I don't remember any detail of the carpets, but they're OK-ish I think, past the first flush of their youth IYSWIM, but OK. Small bedroom is varnished boards, and hallway is laminate.
All the bedrooms have vertical blinds, as does the front living room. Kitchen has a venetian blind, and there's a small "conservatory" which also has blinds.
Not sure where you got the £4250 from - originally it was to be £2,500, but our sol said HMRC would want proof the goods were worth that (from the stamp duty point of view) which vendor couldn't or wouldn't provide. I gather that from HMRC's point of view it is the second hand price of the goods, not the new ones.Doozergirl wrote: »It might be worth dropping a note to the vendor just stating that you understand why they might want to go through the EA on everything but that you are finding it really quite complicated and are meeting obstacles that is making this process much more difficult and slowing things down. If you could make a little list for them of what it is that you need then ask them if they can contact the agent to arrange, or you are still open to talking to them if they are happy to talk to you. Just make it a really pleasant note - you never know what people are thinking when everything goes through EAs etc - they're often just as anxious as you - I do find that being able to talk really helps, even when things appear to be breaking down you'll often find that the vendor had no clue and thinks it's your fault things are dragging.
You are right, it would be the sensible thing to do, but we've been expressly informed by the vendor's solicitor (via our sol) that we are not to approach the vendor directly at all. So I don't think we are even allowed to write to them.Doozergirl wrote: »It might be the agents that have stopped you talking - which of course they have no right to do.
If that's the case, why is it the vendor's sol who has stipulated it? Other than that the sol is conveniently next door to the agent...Doozergirl wrote: »You don't buy the house complete with solicitors, EAs and vendors so once it's all done, it's all done. You are getting the house for a little less than anticiapted, albeit the niggling bits as well which the vendor may never have negotiated on anyway. It does wipe the shine, but you'll have forgotten the worst of it once you've moved in.
LOL, there wouldn't be room in the house for all the sols EAs and vendor! :rotfl: I'm just feeling it's all turning into something of a nightmare, and the drains are the last straw. If we'd been able to view again we'd be in a better position to make a decision, right now we feel totally up in the air.
I used to be a trusting person, but these days I'm getting positively paranoid! :eek:
Thanks for your thoughts. :T
Maggie0
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