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NPower gas 'sculpting'
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Thought I would post the bill contents !
First bill - 14th March - 8th June 2007
754 and 480
Second bill - 8th June - 5th September 2007
1104
Third bill - 5th September - 30th November 2007
317 and 1405
Fourth bill - 30th November - 13th March
854 and 1695 (price rise)
Total : 6609 which is 2037 kWh over the 4572 and all based on actual (my) readings, if I have understood this thread correctly. Thanks folks I am grateful that I found you all
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taffyscot,
I detest the way Npower have acted over this scam with sculpting, and hope they are crucified in the courts.
However please don't 'cut off your nose to spite you face'.
Even very low users like yourself, will still use far more than 4,572 tier 1 units in a year - less thana quarter of the UK average.
If you are areally low user you would do well to look at Ebico. Their great advantage is that the charge a single rate(no tier1 and tier 2) and by all accounts they are an excellent company.
Why would I be cutting off my nose to spite my face Cardew? Do you still think they are the cheapest provider or what? I thought because British Gas had a lower threshold before they started charging the lower rate so would be better for me. No? Taffy0 -
Why would I be cutting off my nose to spite my face Cardew? Do you still think they are the cheapest provider or what? I thought because British Gas had a lower threshold before they started charging the lower rate so would be better for me. No? Taffy
NPower are cheapest for most users, because they charge lower prices - particularly for gas on their on-line tariff.
The sculpting issue does not cause higher prices per year for most people.
The issue was last year when they suspended sculpting and that scam meant all their customers paid extra.
They have stated that they will not suspend sculpting again, and provided they do just that, they are cheapest for many people.
That said, they have a very poor reputation as a company, and I would not be the slightest bit surprised if they don't whack up their prices when they have attracted enough new customers.
Their action on a number of issues has been poor, and their reaction to the justified protests to their suspension of sculpting has been disgraceful.0 -
Why would I be cutting off my nose to spite my face Cardew? Do you still think they are the cheapest provider or what? I thought because British Gas had a lower threshold before they started charging the lower rate so would be better for me. No? Taffy
You really need to be sure of your annual gas consumption before you can make an informed decision. Lets say you use no more than 4572 units p.a. and npower charge you at 6.32p per unit. Over the year that will cost you £303.33 incl vat. One of their main competitors (NOT BritishGas) have two ways to charge for this, the choice is yours.
Option 1
Pay a daily standing charge of 14.03p per day and pay all units used @2.62p per unit incl vat. total for year £51.20 standing charge and 4572 @2.62p = £119.78. Total for the year £170.98.
Option 2
Pay the first 1143 units at a high rate each quarter @ 3.70p = 4572 * 3.7 comes to £169.16 incl vat. After the 4572 (or 1143 per qtr) low rate of 2.62 p per unit incl vat applies.
The more lower rate units you use the less the price benefit will become. However I use around 32000 units per annum and I will pay the same as I pay npower.So I will switch, not to save money but to be with a company that has the best customer service record (according to Energywatch) and to be on a level playing field. Also this company does not carry over any unused high rate units to the next qtr. So if you use 100 units in the summer qtr then the the next qtr will be for 1143 high rate units not adding the unused units from the previous qtr to it. So it is possible to pay less than the 4572 over a year. Virtually impossible with npower. But you need to be pretty sure of what you use a year in order to compare. If you used 12000 units (about half the National avge you would still be better off)0 -
Hi meggsy, I tried to reverse-engineer your bill using my spreadsheet, based on the sculpting factors in their leaflet. It appears that the start date of the forth bill was 5/12 and not 30/11, then everything is pretty much spot on. It also appears that from 4/1 to 13/3/2008 you only used 1695 out of 1765 primary units, so you should see 0 secondary units in this period and nonzero secondary in all other periods.
start end Calculated Your figures
14/03/2007 08/06/2007 1236 1234
08/06/2007 05/09/2007 1104 1104
05/09/2007 05/12/2007 1723 1722
05/12/2007 04/01/2008 854 854
04/01/2008 13/03/2008 1765 1695
All in all it appears you were charged in accordance with the "tariff in operation". This shows yet again that the tariff in operation breaks their contractual obligation to charge no more than 4572 units in a year. Since you've been with nPower for just a year, your case is an excellent example case in addition to complaining, I would encourage you to submit your case (with copies of the bills as evidence) to the"Energy Supply Markets Probe - Call for Evidence"
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Pages/MoreInformation.aspx?docid=2&refer=MARKETS/RETMKTS/ENSUPPRO
Another question: did they credit your dual fuel discount?0 -
Many thanks for your help with this RM5 I will have a look at the link you have given. They did credit £80 to our electricity account which was already in credit, and I asked on the 10th April if they could switch it to the gas a/c to reduce the monthly DD of £90, I heard this afternoon that they have done this so reducing the DD to £70. Better go and concentrate on the sculpting issue now
Thanks again.0 -
DirectDebacle wrote: »You really need to be sure of your annual gas consumption before you can make an informed decision. Lets say you use no more than 4572 units p.a. and npower charge you at 6.32p per unit. Over the year that will cost you £303.33 incl vat. One of their main competitors (NOT BritishGas) have two ways to charge for this, the choice is yours.
Option 1
Pay a daily standing charge of 14.03p per day and pay all units used @2.62p per unit incl vat. total for year £51.20 standing charge and 4572 @2.62p = £119.78. Total for the year £170.98.
Option 2
Pay the first 1143 units at a high rate each quarter @ 3.70p = 4572 * 3.7 comes to £169.16 incl vat. After the 4572 (or 1143 per qtr) low rate of 2.62 p per unit incl vat applies.
The more lower rate units you use the less the price benefit will become. However I use around 32000 units per annum and I will pay the same as I pay npower.So I will switch, not to save money but to be with a company that has the best customer service record (according to Energywatch) and to be on a level playing field. Also this company does not carry over any unused high rate units to the next qtr. So if you use 100 units in the summer qtr then the the next qtr will be for 1143 high rate units not adding the unused units from the previous qtr to it. So it is possible to pay less than the 4572 over a year. Virtually impossible with npower. But you need to be pretty sure of what you use a year in order to compare. If you used 12000 units (about half the National avge you would still be better off)
Hi thank you for this. You said I would be better off even if I use 12000 units. Do you mean I would be better off with this new company or Npower? I do not know how much I will use as we have just moved into a new house. It is a terraced 2 bedroom and quite small. Our bill in the old flat was £30.00 each month for gas and £30 for electric and we are in credit on both. The rates that you are giving are they for a month or for the whole year? We got our first bill from Npower and it is £122.00 for gas and electric for a month. During that month we didn't literally move in for a week and a half and we were away in Wales for 2 weeks. So this bill is for about 4 days and some small usage when we were moving furniture in, unpacking boxes etc. Maybe 4 showers in this time and 4 loads of clothes washed as we still had a bill from the old place too for 2 weeks of this.
I phoned Npower today to try and sort my bill out and give them an actual reading and I asked them for their rates on both tariffs for electricity and gas. I asked the girl if I would be charged 1/12 of the high rate for one month and then the low rate if I reached it and she assured me that I would. She also told me that I would be charged 5.794 for the first 4572 units and then 1.99 after that. She also said there are different rates depending on where you are living in Britain. Any one else heard of that? I asked her to check the rates again as they were not the ones I was given and she said yes those are the rates????????? She said I would be charged 12.71 for the first 728 units of electricity and 11.70 after that is that right?
How can I be charged that much when we weren't even there? How can I work it out? I am worried sick as we cannot afford this.
We were at 5462 on feb 11 for gas and 7317 for electricity.
As of today we are at 5738 for gas and 7829 for electricity.
That is 276 for gas and 512 for electricity. Is that the way I work it out because last week the girl said you have you have to multiply the gas by .65656 divide it by .3636 then multiply it by 1.0656 I am making these ridiculous numbers up as I can't find the sheet but it was something like that. Helppppppppppppppp. How much does that wrk out a year? I am quite baffled now.
Thanks all of you for your input and help. Is this normal coverage for a small house or excessive or low? I have nothing to compare it with. Taffy
taffy0 -
Hi thank you for this. You said I would be better off even if I use 12000 units. Do you mean I would be better off with this new company or Npower?
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. First my post was in reference to GAS only. I do not have my electricity with npower so have no idea of their charges or if any sculpting exists.
Npower vary their gas prices according to the area you live. I pay 6.32p per unit high rate and 1.99p low rate. The prices you were quoted will be the ones applicable to your area. This does not include VAT @5%.
4572 (gas) units with npower over a year = £278.14 incl Vat (@5.794p per unit)
4572 (gas) units with Atlantic Eg = £170 per year = over £100 cheaper for you.
The 12000 unit example was for a year of gas with Atlantic. This would cost you around £365. The same amount of units with npower would be about £433. This is for gas only. If you don't have your old utility bills phone your old supplier and ask how much gas and electricity you used with them over a year at your flat. If your house is larger than your old flat add an amount to this to give an approximate consumption for the house.
The conversation you had with npower over how they charge. If your recollection is correct you were seriously mis-informed. Npower do not charge a flat 1/12th per month high rate for gas. This is what this thread is all about and you need to read the many posts which tell you how they work out a gas bill. Your gas meter reads either in cu. feet or cubic metres (check it to make sure) Gas is charged in kwh. You need to convert cu. feet to cu. metres and then cu. metres to Kilowatt hours (KWh). To do this conversion is relatively simple. If your meter reads in cu. feet take the difference in readings, use the 276 you have quoted and multiply by 2.83. This gives you the gas used in cu. metres. 276*2.83 = 781.08. Now multiply this by two more figures shown on the gas bill. One is shown as a calorific value and the other as a correction factor. My last bill shows these as 38.819 and 1.022640 respectively. So you multiply 781.08*38.819*1.022640. This comes to 31007.206. Finally divide this by 3.6 to convert to Kwh. = 8613.11. If the meter is reading in cu. metres then convert to Kwh by multiplying the 276 with the calorific value and the correction factor and dividing by 3.6. This comes to 3043.50 which would be rounded up to 3044 Kwh. For a small 2 bedroom terrace I would say 3044 Kwh for a month is excessive usage to say the least and comes to £101.47 approx. (incl vat) Make sure that the meter reading that was taken on the day you took possession of the property is the one that npower have. Your first gas bill will be charged according to the reading they have and if it lower than it actually was this will lead to an inflated bill.0 -
I just thought I would update you on my case, I rang NPower Gas to complain about the excessive higher rate units I was charged for and said I was going to take it to the Ombudsman as it was not what my contract with them stated. They said they would take about a week for someone senior to look at it and then ring me back. To their credit, the Customer Services is very efficient, I got through immediately and the lady I spoke to was very understanding. I have not heard anything from them yet but I notice that yesterday they have sent me a £32 refund direct to my bank account, 'with their apologies'!
I had then checked my NPower Electric bill and noticed that they had not paid me my £80 discount which was due in January, so I have now emailed them about that too and asked where it was.0 -
For those of you that think all will be well with npower now they have everything working all lovely lovely since 1st November and you will never be charged more than 4572 per year, think on this. My last bill had an end date of 12th March 2008. On 1st April I gave them a meter reading as I wanted a bill up to 1st April (start of new charging year as far as I am concerned) For that 10 ten day period they charged me 281 Kwh at the high rate. Is it me ? I thought under the new improved rip off system the total high rate units for March was 271.577 Kwh. They charged me at 28.1kwh per day high rate. It must be me. In npowerland a year = 6 months or soish, therefore 31* 28.1 must = 271.577 plus ten for good luck ! Searched Ebay for an npower calculator- anyone know where I can get one or would a blindfold and a dartboard be as good a way to get the numbers? And if you were wondering 28.1 * 365 = 4572 and not 10256. The man at npower said so, lol.
Seriously this is concerning. Have they suspended sculpting already and not told anyone. Or altered the charging rate, maybe even zeroed the year again. I have been overcharged by £12.84 for these high rate units over a 10 day period. About 220% more than I should have been, a massive discrepancy.0
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