Energy Performance Certificates

speedtwin wrote: »

A EPC lasts 10 years for a rented property but i have heard it only lasts 3 years in a hip so if you are expecting a discount when you come to sell cos you already have the EPC part you might be disapointed.

can anyone confirm this

Ok, the rules on this are that the EPC for a rented property lasts 10 years but say if the landlord decides he/she has had enough of renting and wants to sell up, the EPC can be no older than 1 year by the time it goes in the HIP. These rules are set by our government not the EU. According to the EU the EPC can last for 10 years and in many other European countries they accept and use this guideline.

EPCs will be introduced in every European Country by 2009. They or their equivalent will be required for every significant built structure in the country very soon. E.g. Commercial EPCs will soon be launched as will newbuild EPCs and Display Energy Certificates for public buildings.

Keep an eye on the rules though - not so long ago the rule on EPC age for a HIP was 3 months!! Such is the fickle nature of HM gvmt on EPCs and HIPs.

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

Ok, convince me that these are NOT worthless bits of paper. For a start, what special equipmemt does a DEA need to perform his/her duties?

GG

Well, I heard of an ex-special forces guy down in Essex who uses some of his leftover army kit to see inside the cavity of twin leafed walls to determine if they've been filled or not (true story)

Your typical DEA/HI on the other hand uses the standard kit of any surveyor really - tape measures, dust masks, ladders, yard sticks, photography equipment, DISTO laser measures, PDAs, laptops, torches and a variety of miscellaneous items that appear as required e.g. mirrors on sticks to see round hard to view corners, conservation area maps, local records of build dates in the area, knowledge of specail construction types in the area e.g. system builds like trusteel/wimpey/airy etc etc. Most essential bit of kit however is a good pair of eyes. Also, language skills come in handy - there is a growing polish population here in Doncaster so having a few stock phrases helps.

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

Will a house on the North Sea coast score less well than an identical house in a warmer part of the country?

GG

You would think wouldn't you? They are currently looking at ways to take into account local topographical features and exposure factors but when they developed the software to produce EPCs they just averaged this out which means its less accurate as a report (there is pressure within the industry from those conducting EPCs on the writers of the software we use to improve this) The EPC will (we hope) be improved as time goes on to take into account of more renewable recommendations and other things such as the one you brought up.

Phew. My fingers ache :rotfl:!

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

No, I wouldn't.

Washing machines do not take into account how 'sticky' local dirt is or the distance from the hot water source to the machine.

Well thats what the people who develop the software say but alot of the data is already available e.g. topography and average wind speed in different parts of the country is already available and could be built into the software without too much hassle. Secondary benefits could be recommending domestic scale wind turbines at appropriate sites taking into account local topography e.g. not recommending it on top of a cliff or in an irregular airstream e.g. dense urban locations due to excessive turbulence in such a location.

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

How long before Rogue Traders task different assessors, charging different fees, to assess the same house.

GG

To what end? I can't see a circumstance where this would happen.

I am fully aware you do need a certificate, what I am saying is its a waste of paper you can tell how energy efficient a building is going to be with your eyes. [/quote]

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Well, I'd agree you could get an idea by looking and also by asking the vendor/landlord but as someone said in a previous post not all the evidence is there to see. For example I inspected a property today where warm front had put 250mm of insulation behind the stud walls in the loft leaving the middle half of the loft completely un-insulated. In practice all that would happen is the heat would avoid the insulation and go straight through the ceiling and joists and out through the rafters - complete waste of time.

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Chris fair play to you for fighting and answering all these points could you please talk us through the procedures you go through to assess which band my property will be in and also how someone assesses the effects of the observations (things like loft insulation etc)on this banding.
I'm talking about the nuts and bolts of it the measurements you take, calculations you make etc.

====

Sure. Right are you ready for this?

Well, basically Energy Efficiency Score displayed in the Energy Performance Certificate is a representation of the thermal performance of the property. It takes into account how heat and light is supplied to the property and how well the property keeps in the heat/regulates the heat supply. The environmental impact score represents the 'carbon footprint' of the property so the higher this score is the smaller the footprint. Both scores do tend to go hand in hand, rising and falling with each other but they can diverge sometimes e.g. a property with a ground source heat pump (not that I’ve ever seen one :rotfl:its nearly always gas boilers).

In terms of how the scores are calculated we begin by collecting various pieces of information when inspecting the property and also off-site (this is not exhaustive) :

Age,
Building type,
property position in building,
what surrounds the building,
low energy vs. incandescent lighting,
measurements of the volume of space in the building
wall construction type
insulation in or on the walls
Roof type and insulation depth, evidence of damp and lack of ventilation. Identification of gable construction materials used. Inspection of the eaves for cavity evidence.
Renewables present e.g. solar water heating/Photovoltaics (electric from the sun)
Main heating system classification using SEDBUK mostly (an updated/maintained boiler database) or using a code system specific to our system
Heating controls present
Secondary heating identification
How the hot water is heated primarily/is there an immersion/two immersions present? Is the store a thermal store or a straight hot water store?
How hot water is stored/how container is insulated and to what depth. Is there a cylinder thermostat attached to the tank?
Electricity supply single/dual rate
If mains gas is present
If property is in a conservation area/listed building
Thermostatic Radiator Valve count vs. Non-TRV radiators
Examination of glazing and classification into width categories representing differing age of installation/building reg changes
Examination of local records showing build dates
If its a flat, is the corridor heated or not, if its not what is the length of the wall sheltering the property?
What position is the flat in relation to the rest of the flats in the block?
Is there a room in the roof/cellar - storage or liveable?
In the roof void is there insulation overspill, expansion vessels/safety valves in evidence?
Is there insulation evidence in any cavity wall meter cabinets/holes in the wall (yes people do have bricks missing)
Is there excessive/inferior glazing, if so how much,
Are there alternative walls present e.g. tile hung timber framed facades between 1930s bay windows (very common in my patch)
Any mechanical ventilation/supply and extract systems in place?
Number of open flues at the property/number of open fires.
Any conservatories present, how is it adjoined to the property, how is it accessed?

Once all that is done (and as I say this list is not complete - different situations call for different information gathering) we go back to the office and work up the data.

In terms of the calculations we do ourselves they are quite limited (we work out the percentages and the areas etc). Then we enter the above information into the software which is run by our accreditation scheme. Mine is Elmhurst Energy Systems for example.

Oh and just because the computer does most of the calculations doesn't mean we don't need to understand how it works. In order to get an accurate representation of the property we need to understand rdSAP (that’s the name of the tool) e.g. need to know the different U values of various materials like UPVC, solid brick or timber in timber framed houses.

After entering the data the program processes the data and pulls relevant information from building regs used at the time of construction etc then compiles it in a draft EPC which we then scrutinise for silliness thrown up by the system e.g. remove inappropriate improvements like cavity wall insulation for an exposed property situated on top of a hill.

Then we submit the finished EPC to the central government database (a requirement) and deliver the EPC to whomever ordered it and deliver the 'EPC graphs' normally to the estate agent as they are legally required to include the graphs in all written sales particulars including those online e.g. right move.
I think that covers the main points. Maybe this could be made a sticky or something as I've answered alot the stuff in this thread before on other threads. Don't want to do it again ...

chappers wrote: »

Just out of interest how long do you think this whole process takes you and are there any short cuts i.e do you assume certain things without haveing to check or could you do this without visiting the property or take the details over the phone from the homeowner(is there any legal reason why not
Not trying to catch you out or anything but that seems like quite alot of work and I have seen EPCs offered for £55 that equtes to less than 3 hours work , is that about right.Is it a bit like surveying with a big fat disclaimer stating "to the best knowledge of the surveyor" this is the case.

Including everything it probably averages about three, three and a half hours per instruction. Personally I think conducting the EPC is relatively easy compared to the amount of time, effort and money consumed in winning instructions in the first place. There will shortly be 7/8 thousand assessors chasing enough work for 1/1.5 thousand full time people.

Yes, there are short cuts but not because we're lazy, its because we are restricted by the software imposed on us by our licensing schemes. E.g. we have no facility to take into account insulation under the floor and some assumptions have to be made e.g. that a property was built to the regulations at the time of construction and that if there is a residential property adjoining that it is heated in the same pattern to all other properties.

I don't think I could conduct an EPC over the phone :rotfl:for one I'd lose all credibility, probably my license and any possibility of repeat business! In my experience most vendors don't know the difference between a timber framed house and a breezeblock built property and couldn't tell you if a cavity wall had been insulated or not (look at the list of considerations I just posted!)

Actually I've seen EPCs advertised for lower than £55 but thats to US the inspectors. The public would obviously pay more with the middle man/men making a profit. I think the thing to bear in mind here is that the quality of assessors varies quite alot. The DEA training industry is poorly regulated and attracts people from various backgrounds. Consequently you get DEAs who are also chartered surveyors and structural engineers who are obviously well trained to perform
certain aspects of the EPC, but you also get the people who could afford the training but don't know the difference between a purlin and a rafter or a cavity wall and a solid wall and still don't after they are trained. I.e. they plumped for a low cost sub standard training scheme. Quality inspectors are doing most of their work for between £80 and £150 which is a fair price considering the work involved in doing the job PROPERLY.

Yes there are some disclaimers used in the EPC and we also carry full PII insurance by law so if a problem arises as a result of the EPC the party involved will likely be covered.

Have to go do an EPC now, sorry! :rotfl: