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Axa Sunlife

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  • ashley0611 wrote:
    There are no penalties - the figure they quote is the figure you receive.
    I feel I ought to clarify this, and an earlier comment of mine.

    In with profits endowments more of the charges are taken early on, so the "performance" in the second half could be better. Those who cash in early are usually deprived of some of their asset share of the with profits fund - even though this is not explicitly revealed to investors.

    Insurers, dontcha just luv 'em ?

    What I'd really like to see is someone writing to Axa to ask for a future projection on their policy assuming the Axa WP fund grows @ 6% (like the sort of mortgage endowment projection "shortfall letters" that most households have received).

    This figure will not be the same as the surrender value + 2.9% pa growth ( = 6% minus 3.1% charges).

    Armed with this information we might be able to categorically say whether or not it is best to cash in.

    Axa IMHO designed this policy to ensure that more people cashed in early than on the average endowment :mad:. Early encashment does help fund profits and even the investment returns for those who decide to hang on.

    But with the 3.1% charges (before the cost of life cover), and the nature of a WP fund, there's probably not much hope for any investors staying put even with the benefit of others encashing early.
  • aliasojo
    aliasojo Posts: 23,053 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Sorry to bump....just wanted to ask how long people waited for their paperwork and surrender forms?

    Still had nothing through yet, nearly a week now although not if you only count business days.
    Herman - MP for all! :)
  • sylblake
    sylblake Posts: 113 Forumite
    I haven't received my paperwork yet, but I only phoned the latter part of last week.
    Be ALERT - The world needs more LERTS
  • ashley0611
    ashley0611 Posts: 275 Forumite
    I phoned Thursday and 1 came Saturday - the other one still hadnt arrived by today so I phoned them back and the lady said they had only sent the one out and she would send out the other recorded delivery.
    Tin can banky - 3/4 full £1 and £2, Quidco January £19.49, Boots points 2543, Tesco Club Card 2763, Piggy Points 840
  • Gambit
    Gambit Posts: 584 Forumite
    I too am in this boat and didnt actually realise that this cash builder plan was so bad since I took one up before I knew about other options I had that were avaliable to me. I have two policies, both of which were started in 2003 so they have only been going for just under 3 years. The amounts I started paying on each were £50 and £10 which have now grown to £80 and £14 respectively. I received a quote for the first one and have been given a figure of £787.38 which includes my bonus of £21.21. How can this be right? As I must have put in at least £2000 in the first one. I've been told that I cant surrender the 2nd one at the mo either.

    HELP! :( Any advice appreciated...
    Current Debt Owed To Family: [STRIKE]£12,575[/STRIKE] £9,000 :wall:
    Estimated Debt Free... [STRIKE]Dec 2012[/STRIKE] Aug 2012

    :xmassmileChristmas 2010 Sealed Pot Challenge #477 :xmassmile
  • ReportInvestor
    ReportInvestor Posts: 3,646 Forumite
    Can you give me the exact starting dates of both policies so I can do the sums?

    In theory your timing was perfect as you started right at the bottom of the +82% bull market in shares - what a shame you went for an expensive with profits endowment, which won't reflect that growth.

    An equity income unit trust would have left you quids in :(.

    Can you also say if yours was the "Cash bonus" policy - and what, if any, cash was paid out after one year.

    Does anyone know if such cash bonuses after one year were paid out net of basic rate tax, or did you get the amount gross and have to declare it to the taxman?

    I mean. Why would anyone create an investment where you pay money in but get money out after one year at your top rate of income tax :confused::o :mad: .
  • Gambit
    Gambit Posts: 584 Forumite
    I will do that tonight as unfortunately all that stuff is at home. I have since spoken to the AXA life call centre who have given me an address to write to where I can try and convince them they should refund me due to what their misadvertsing in 2004. Not sure if this will work but figure its worth a try if nothing else...
    Current Debt Owed To Family: [STRIKE]£12,575[/STRIKE] £9,000 :wall:
    Estimated Debt Free... [STRIKE]Dec 2012[/STRIKE] Aug 2012

    :xmassmileChristmas 2010 Sealed Pot Challenge #477 :xmassmile
  • Gambit
    Gambit Posts: 584 Forumite
    Ok, hope this is enough info:

    Policy 1:

    Started on 18/02/03 at £50, increasing by £10 every year until 18/02/08
    Was paid half the 1st yrs premium back after a year: £300
    Current surrender value: £787.38
    Guaranteed sum assured: £11,070
    What Sun Life thinks your policy could return if the underlying fund grew at 6% pa: £19,900

    Policy 2:

    Started on 14/11/03 at £10, increasing by £2 every year until 14/11/08
    Was paid half the 1st yrs premium back after a year: £60
    Current surrender value: Not able to until 3 years have passed ie. This Nov
    Guaranteed sum assured: £2,214
    What Sun Life thinks your policy could return if the underlying fund grew at 6% pa: £4,020

    Any help or advice greatly appreciated! :)
    Current Debt Owed To Family: [STRIKE]£12,575[/STRIKE] £9,000 :wall:
    Estimated Debt Free... [STRIKE]Dec 2012[/STRIKE] Aug 2012

    :xmassmileChristmas 2010 Sealed Pot Challenge #477 :xmassmile
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 119,673 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker

    What Sun Life thinks your policy could return if the underlying fund grew at 6% pa: £19,900

    6%... you will be lucky. If they gave you a 4% figure, look at just under that as likely potential.

    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • ReportInvestor
    ReportInvestor Posts: 3,646 Forumite
    For Gambit

    Policy 2 - it would be worth continuing to pay into it until November in order to get back something from Axa.

    Policy 1 - If you invest the £787 and all future premiums into a Cash ISA @ 4% you will have saved £18,927 by February 2015. You take the risk that interest rates could fall, although you will be able to get 4.75% at the moment, and that ISAs could be abolished after the review in 2010. Also don't forget that you are losing £11k of life cover when you cancel.

    This £18,927 compares to the £19,900 quoted by Axa IF the Axa fund grows @ 6% over 15 years. You would have got more than £19,900 in a Cash ISA @ 3% if you'd invested in that from the beginning (that's because of Axa's 3.1% pa charges).

    If you'd invested in Cash ISAs from the beginning @ 4% you'd be expecting £21,450 after 15 years.

    If dh is right and the Axa fund only grows @ 4.1% from now (giving you a 1% return after charges) then your Axa policy might only return approximately £16,500 = £15,682 + a few £100s that they are probably deducting from your current surrender value in order to compensate themselves for the loss of their future charges. This is what I meant in an earlier post about "hidden" surrender penalties when you cash in a WP endowment early - MSE link

    By comparison 4.1% growth (1% to you :() on the Axa fund from start to finish would yield £17,009 (compared to £15,900 paid in and deducting the £300 cash payout at the end of year 1).

    Carol Smillie is not going to be a popular girl in a decade's time :o .

    P.S. It would be very interesting to know the performance on the underlying Axa fund was in 2005, a stunning investment year.
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