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[MSE Lawrence]

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's 'Is Santa hit by the Credit Crunch?' Blog.

Click reply to discuss below.

[badbunny42]

This is a real worry for us, our 7 year old really takes things to heart and is going to be hard hit by the Santa conversation. She was distraught enough when she lost a tooth down the sink while washing it (it turned out that the tooth fairy was small enough to fit through the plug hole and get it).
The trouble is, we will need to do it without shaking the christianity she is developing despite living in a house of athiests.

[brightonman123]

say he got held up going through the chunnel..

[lex]

Father Christmas only brings a few small presents in our house. All the other presents do come from family and friends. Otherwise how do DChildren know who to thank?

Father Christmas tends to fill their small stockings with a few edible items, some stickers, few small crafty items, maybe some funky socks.

If the credit crunch hit father christmas it would be quite easy for him to choose cheaper alternatives for the elves to make. Also he wouldn't need to pack those items quite so tightly as he has done in previous years. (Stocking is fairly small)

Likewise if the credit crunch hits mummy and daddy at Christmas DChildren are already fairly aware that things like food and electricity cost alot of money...we'd have a chat about how we are saving up for x and will just be buying small presents.

lex

[katiejones]

Originally Posted by lex

Father Christmas only brings a few small presents in our house. All the other presents do come from family and friends. Otherwise how do DChildren know who to thank?

Father Christmas tends to fill their small stockings with a few edible items, some stickers, few small crafty items, maybe some funky socks.



lex

This is exactly like our house

Father Christmas can't afford all the presents in the world, so he buys a select few

[Olliebeak]

My 3 are all grown-up now (with little ones of their own) but when they were small my ex-OH was out of work. How could we let them think that Santa had his favourites - and it wasn't THEM?

We finally told them that mums and dads had to pay Santa for the presents that he brought because he was old and only had his pension .

We even saw some families where presents were received on Christmas Day, showed off to friends and then disappeared never to be seen again. These we found out were sent back to the catalogue as 'damaged when received' or 'not suitable for child'. One child received a 'stack stereo system' as a personal gift - but it was placed in the family living room and used by the parents NOT the child.

[CC Bloom]

The Santa letter is written by end of October in our house and is only allowed to ask for one present but can give a few suggestions in case elves aren't able to make enough of one thing to go around. This gives us an opportunity to shop around and try to get some bargains. We also talk about not being greedy when we ask for something and say that Santa has to share out toys with children all over the world some of whom get nothing else, unlike our kids. I'm always shocked by how much my son's friends get and especially by so called "stocking fillers" many of which seem to be as expensive as his main present. I think this year many parents who have over indulged their kids previously may now have to be very creative in their explanations!!

[oldhaggis]

We always used to tell our children that mums and dads sent Father Christmas the money to pay for their presents. Fortunately for us they didn't ever request anything exceptionally expensive.

Some children at their school received very expensive items and we were able to explain it to them by saying that their parents were richer than we were.

[jet64]

We were uncomfortable about lying to our kids so we told them from day 1 that Santa was a storybook person who was fun to believe in but wasn't a real person. They knew the presents came from real people. This horrified some of our friends but we didn't have to go to great lengths to keep the pretence up and it didn't stop us visiting Santa in many locations and enjoying the story (and presents). Children view the world differently from adults and have no difficulty living in a mix of fantasy/reality. Indeed one of my children at one point refused to believe Santa wasn't real! We could still do the fun things like leaving out a carrot for Rudolph etc - but we all knew it was make believe. We made sure they understood they needed to be tactful around other children! It worked for us - it's a bit like going to Disneyland - you know it's a fantasy but it's great all the same.

[mini]

My daughter came to tell me you were on TV, wanted to know why Santa is struggling with the credit crunch when we pay for their presents and we have been saving up!

We use emailsanta.com you get to ask for 3 things on there which I think is fair enough, youngest wanted an ipod, an expensive one so I explained that would mean not many other presents so she is going with surprises & saving up for her own ipod.

As a child we living in a very mixed area, with some very rich people, I never understood why they got so many presents when I tried to be sooooooooo good and didn't get much so it was important to me that my children didn't see presents as a measurement of how good they are.

mini

[timnicebutdim]

Apparently a mate at work told me that due to the increased fuel prices and credit crunch Santa's elves are currently picketing the Lapland fuel depot as we speak so it's uncertain whether presents will be delivered on time (or even at all) this year

[Adasta]

Originally Posted by badbunny42

This is a real worry for us, our 7 year old really takes things to heart and is going to be hard hit by the Santa conversation. She was distraught enough when she lost a tooth down the sink while washing it (it turned out that the tooth fairy was small enough to fit through the plug hole and get it).
The trouble is, we will need to do it without shaking the christianity she is developing despite living in a house of athiests.

What do either of these ideas have to do with Christianity?

[LyndsayJ]

I think I'm going to have to explain that the Elves have had a really busy year so haven't been able to do as much as in previous years. Greatly admire all you who keep it to a small basic stocking (though not the honest-at-all-costs-and-remove-all-the-magic people, sorry, just not my style!). Must admit, am worried about how we're going to manage this year, not so much the credit crunch, just a spendthrift husband who decided this summer he deserved a brand new Triumph motorbike!

[pezza88]

Like one of the posters above, my parents never tried to pretend that presents came from anyone other than family and friends. Stocking fillers always had 'from Santa Claus' on them but I always knew that they were from my Grandparents. My sister and I had strict instructions not to tell other children.
I really see no point in lying to children - surely it is nicer for them to know that you love them and want to give them presents than to think that they are part of a mass high-speed delivery of gifts!

[earthmother]

We do things along the same lines as Lex and CC Bloom.

Christmas lists are done the weekend after Bonfire Night, and the kids are made aware that Santa will buy them one (reasonably-priced) present from it, and also fill their stockings up. Our reasoning being that he has to deliver all over the world, and there isn't room on his sleigh for more than one toy and a few treats per child (this is where the Norad site helps - gives them an idea of how far he has to go).

Once he's finished with the list, he sends it to Grandma and the rest of the family, so they have an idea of what else the boys would like.


At the same time, we are honest about our money - they know it's tight (as much as a 7, 5 and 2.5 year old need to), and not to expect huge piles of presents. But we've always worked that way, so they've been brought up not to ask for silly amounts, just as we were as children - we just understood that £200 toys were not an option.

Luckily this year the elder two have had fixed interests, and the youngest is still young enough not to care what he gets so long as he can rip paper, so I've been able to buy in advance and they're virtually done (if anything major changes then we shuffle things around the family - the Greats find it easier for me or Grandma to pick things up for them to give anyway). I'll be honest, if we hadn't done it that way, the would be very little under the tree this year as financial commitments have changed very suddenly in recent months and even without the 'credit crunch' costs, the 'spare' just isn't there at the moment.

[taka]

My parents made me break it to my wee brother that there was no Santa when things were really tight. (I am 3 yrs older) He was at the "still want to believe or I wont get pressies from Santa but have suspisions" stage. I was not his favourite person for a while but he was fine by Xmas itself!

[Lexis200]

Originally Posted by pezza88

I really see no point in lying to children - surely it is nicer for them to know that you love them and want to give them presents than to think that they are part of a mass high-speed delivery of gifts!

I don't get this - I haven't met a single kid who would describe pressies from Father Christmas (while they are young enough to believe in him) as 'part of a mass high-speed delivery of gifts'. This strikes me as your ideals put onto them, or at the very least expecting a much higher level of understanding than your average 5/6/7 year old is capable of.

Whilst we do indulge our two with the idea of FC, we were not the ones to implant this idea. When they were very little all pressies were from us, when they got older and got the idea of FC from other kids (and could actually read tags - otherwise what's the point!!), we started to mark a few pressies from him in their stockings.

When they stop beliving it (not long now I suspect for my 7 year old), I'll be sad but I won't be trying to get him to carry on with the idea.

In complete contrast to the above quote, I don't see the point in dispelling a childhood fantasy that kids want to believe in, especially when all their friends likely believe the same thing. The only purpose that can serve is to make them feel like the odd one out with their friends, at a time when belonging to a group is very important.

Why not let them be kids for a few years before they have to grow up and realise nothing is magical?

[sarah*a]

you could always tell them that the price of reindeer food has gone up so Santa needs to carry smaller presents to enable him to get all round the world on limited fuel

Thankfully we don't have that problem anymore - at 14 DD would just mutter something sarcastic if any of her gifts had 'from Santa' on them

[BOBS]

We always told our children (now 9, 6 and 4) ... that we have to send Santa money so he can bring pressies, and that he couldnt afford to bring all the children nice gifts without some help..... so hopefully they understand that since things are tighter this year, we might not have as much money to send Santa.

[purplelotus]

Originally Posted by Adasta

What do either of these ideas have to do with Christianity?

What with Father Christmas, Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, how does Jesus stand a chance?!