Rail, fares to be "simplified"

moonrakerz · 24 April 2008 at 11:55AM

According to the media, the system of rail fares is to be "simplified" and "rationalised" so that we can all understand it.
(Isn't that what they said about the tax system when they doubled the 10% band - but I digress !)

The present system can be a bit complex, but if you use the most user friendly site it isn't that bad, and some amazing value tickets can be got with APEX fares.
I have spent an hour this morning getting fares for the routes that I and my family use most. I have collected period returns, day returns, all bought at different times before travel. One example:-
A period return to London (for 10 days time) is £18.60 (APEX)
A period return to London (for tomorrow) is £47 (Saver !)

When the new "simplified" system comes in, I shall see what fares are available and compare the difference. I may be just a teeny bit cynical here, but I fear that we shall see yet another round of price increases here which the rail operators will try and hide under the guise of "simplification".

Watch this space ......................................

lily_the_pink · 24 April 2008 at 1:37PM

I heard this on the radio this morning and immediately thought "oh no, that means they are putting the cheap fares up".

There is further information here:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/simple_fares.html

I just checked the trainline site and the prices for London to Manchester are so far the same for the cheapest ticket - though there are no £31 tickets for 1st class which are sometimes available.

There is an article in the Times here which highlights some of the features of the simplification (including losing right to refunds - though am not sure the tickets I have bought in the past ever had that right anyway). Changes - for a fee of course - will now be allowed on all advance tickets.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article3803746.ece

moonrakerz · 24 April 2008 at 2:44PM

Lily, thank you for that, I wasn't aware the details were already on the National Rail website.

Right !

I've had a very quick look at two of my routes. Both to London.

1. (SWT). Old fare: APEX £18.60.
New fare: Advance £18.00 - BUT, this is not available on the trains that the APEX tickets were. In that case I would have to pay £37.90 for this "simplified" ticket to get the same trains.

To be fair it is now possible to do the trip for £18 - BUT (again !) - the train availability is VERY limited. You can use it on the 1220 from London, the next available train is 1920 - and this route has a train every 30 mins ! I thought they wanted to get people to travel on the off-peak trains, I was obviously mistaken.

2. (FGW). Old fare: £22.50
New fare: £41 (same trains) Lowest fare is now £33.50 but much restricted train availability.

I have a feeling that the rail companies will announce that they have "cut" fares, but they will not be very forthcoming about the much reduced availability of the cheaper tickets.
It certainly appears that I will pay more to get to London and back or I will have to go up much later in the morning, which then makes you wonder whether it's worth the effort, with a much reduced time available in London.

Looks like a "smoke and mirrors" trick !

I would be interested to hear any other examples from MSE ers

Crabman · 24 April 2008 at 2:53PM

A couple of days ago I happened to check on a journey from Oxford - London which on an advance ticket totalled £5.30 return.

Having just checked, the same return ticket now costs £8.00 :rolleyes:

chuckley · 24 April 2008 at 7:49PM

was 'simple' enough before.

all fares to go up now....

Poodlecrazy · 25 April 2008 at 11:55AM

Yes I agree, last time they 'simplified' train tickets on FGW the exact same return journey (times and class) went from £56 to £180!!!!

digitaltoast · 30 April 2008 at 7:55PM

Someone just pointed me to this thread....

I'm REALLY surprised people aren't more up-in-arms about a DOUBLING of their fares.
I've been in full investigative mode! In exposing the lies and cheats and spin behind this ticket price rip-off, I made a podcast with conversations with various spokespersons - worth a listen:
http://www.digitaltoast.co.uk/simplified-train-fares-ripoff-scam-price-rises

You really should be worried about this if your journey involves a Crosscountry train journey

(From my original post)
The Association of Train Operating Companies have announced a "simplification" of the fares.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/simple_fares.html

Rail fares 'set to be simplified'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7364127.stm

Basically, despite the nonsense from AOTOC and Passenger Focus "welcoming" this move, it has meant BIG increases, in some cases DOUBLE the cheapest fare.

Examples:

SINGLE JOURNEY from Oxford (OXF) to Aberystwyth (AYW)
Currently: £10 After 18th May: £20.50

SINGLE JOURNEY from Reading (RDG) to Shrewsbury (SHR)
Currently: £10 After 18th May: £18.00

It doesn't appear to apply to ALL fares, for example, Reading to Castle Cary seems unaffected.

I would be interested to know if YOUR journey will be affected:
Using the fares finder, you can check what the CHEAPEST available price wil be BEFORE the 18th of May.
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/pj/fo1

If you add the option to select 5 days, you could try, say:
12th May, 16th May, 26th May, 21st June, 21st July
If you see the cheapest prices available only BEFORE the 18th of May, you will know you're probably onto a loser.
So, next step is to pick a date WAY into the future, say a mid-day in June, and find the cheapest fare (using the "show all fares" button)
And that is your new fare.

If you are affected, please add your journey and by how much the increase will be, to this thread.

I've just spent a couple of hours of my afternoon off on the phone to AOTOC and Passenger focus and left a message for my MP as well as contacting the media. Passenger focus said their interest was on simplifying the structure, not the resulting higher fares. AOTOC haven't got back to me. I've sent letters to both, as well as Crosscountry Trains, as a random operator, in case they can shed light on it. Is there anyone else to be contacting?

How did I find this and how did I know I'm not just making a mistake and getting unlucky on the dates?
I spent a large part of Sunday trying to book several advance trips, and NONE of the expected cheap tickets were available. The phone number was useless, so as I passed through Reading earlier I asked the booking office why I couldn't find these cheap fares, and they explained about the 18th of May, and that many of the cheapest tickets had been merged into a higher price. And the thing that really got me was that a ticket supervisor made me feel almost like I should have been grateful to have got the lower price - "not everyone can get these cheap tickets you get - it just makes it fairer on everyone". Oh, right, so everyone who bothers to plan in advance is penalised (on certain journeys, it seems).

Finally, as if a doubling of the fares themselves wasn't enough...from

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/wales-news/2008/04/25/rail-shake-up-could-hit-travellers-in-pocket-91466-20817424/
"...among the changes being introduced are a ban on refunds for cancelled pre-booked business and first class tickets.

First Great Western – along with other UK operators Virgin, East Midlands Trains and TransPennine Express – currently offer refunds on their standard and first class pre-booked business tickets but will no longer do so under the new no-refund policy.

There is also likely to be an increase in the cost of changing journey times for return tickets bought in advance with some UK operators, with many routes doubling from £10 to £20"

HappyMJ · 7 May 2008 at 5:13PM

My morning peak fare into Birmingham New Street depart 7.00am

Old Advance fare 7th may £5 one-way saves £2 on the normal day fare. (Hardly worth the hassle of booked trains.)

New Advance fare 19th may £3 one-way saves £6 on the normal day fare

Standard Day Return fare is £11.90
7 Day Season ticket £52.70

So by my calculation i'm now up by £30 per week... yippppeee.
Or if i wanted a season ticket £22.70 better off

digitaltoast · 7 May 2008 at 5:25PM

Where from?

EDIT: If anyone hasn't seen it, I strongly recommend this:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-train-tickets

And especially, in regard to the above post, this:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-train-tickets#t2

There's a link to a BIG list of money saving trip-splitting tips.
For example:

for London to Penzance the cheapest ticket was a standard open return at £234. This train stops in Bristol, so then I checked separate ticket prices. By buying four singles: London to Bristol, Bristol to Penzance and then for the return Penzance to Bristol and Bristol to London; the total cost was £79, a saving of £155. And remember this is for the same trip, on the same train, which you needn't get off!

Gacker · 17 May 2008 at 1:40PM

One of the undeniably good aspects of the allegedly simplified fare structure is that discounts now apply to all railcards for Advance tickets from all train companies. In the past, for example, you could get a Senior Railcard discount on the cheapest London-Oxford price of £4, thus £2.65, but not on the equivalent London-Saxmundham price of £6 – that is now available for £3.95.

Because of the unnecessarily short period between the announcement (24 April) and introduction (18 May) of these changes by the Association of Train Operating Companies, railcard holders who booked before 24 April for a journey after 18 May might find that they paid full price for a journey on a train for which they'd now be eligible for the relevant discount. Since the industry rules are clearly on the side of the customer/passenger in cases of misselling – where a more expensive ticket has been sold in error – I recommend anyone who finds that they have fallen inadvertently into this time trap contact the relevant train company's customer services. Yes, the conditions for the new post-18 May Advance tickets include "If you purchased an Advance Purchase ticket before the 24 April then the terms and conditions applicable to that ticket at the time of purchase will apply", but that's dodgy logic, whereas "I will happily refund the difference for you on the ticket ... I will happily ensure a cheque is issued for the difference" (in reply to my suggestion of misselling, albeit unknowingly and through no fault of their own) suggests that a gentle prod is definitely worth trying!

ticketcollector · 17 May 2008 at 4:09PM

Gacker wrote: »

Yes, the conditions for the new post-18 May Advance tickets include "If you purchased an Advance Purchase ticket before the 24 April then the terms and conditions applicable to that ticket at the time of purchase will apply", but that's dodgy logic, whereas "I will happily refund the difference for you on the ticket ... I will happily ensure a cheque is issued for the difference".....

Dont bother wasting your time trying to get the difference refunded. I have told three different people to write into Customer Services using your "but i've paid more" argument and two of them came back to show me the CS letters. They wrote back saying "tough" in two A4 pages of text.

Also you need to remember that many fares would have been revised aka increased, on the 18th anyway regardless of the 'simpler' new name tickets coming in. So your ticket may have been increased because of the fare increase.

Rail, fares to be "simplified"

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