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Taking The Airlines To Court
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Just had my defence back from Virgin after I submitted an MCOL.
In summary I'm claiming for a 4hr 46 min delay for myself & 3 members of family from back in October 2010. I've filled in the on-line claim forms, had the standard EC response, went to the CAA got the same answer from the CAA. I then issued an NBA and finally an MCOL, issued, acknowledged and defended.
So, to their defense; I've snipped where I can so you get the jist;
Preliminary Issues
1. The claimant purports to bring this claim on behalf of three others, the claimant has no standing to bring a representative action....the claimant is only entitled to claim relief to the extent recoverable in his sole name.
2. Defendants right to file an amended defence are fully reserved.
3. Without prejudice etc... the defendant denies that it is liable to the claimant.
Then a bit of background where they admit that I was booked to travel and that the aircraft was delayed by an unforeseen technical problem which resulted in an arrival delay of 4hrs 46 mins.
'Just prior to take off the aircraft was pushing back, a fault was detected. The aircraft returned to the stand to enable the defendants engineer to investigate.' The engineers discovered there was a fault with the Nacelle anti ice for engine number 2 and would require a replacement nacelle anti ice valve.
Bit of what looks like standard legislation speak about EC 261/2004....until we get to the bit where the defendants aver that the aircraft scheduled to operate this flight was delayed due to extraordinary circumstances which could not have been foreseen or avoided by the airline.
The damage came to light during preparations for departure from Manchester. There had been no previous history of any problem relating to this fault and was not something that could have been prevented. The defendants engineers took all reasonable measures to rectify the problem and minimise the delay.
In view of the above, the defendant avers that the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided and as such the defendant denies they are liable to the claimant for the amount claimed.
Still awake?? :rotfl: Good :j
I'm wondering how to proceed next, I have a couple of weeks to fill and return the next stage so I'm intending to also ask for mediation. Hope I can draw on the wisdom and knowledge available on these boards to help me.0 -
1. The claimant purports to bring this claim on behalf of three others, the claimant has no standing to bring a representative action....the claimant is only entitled to claim relief to the extent recoverable in his sole name.
I've no idea if this is covered in the FAQs but there have been posts and responses on the subject. Although some legal claims "on behalf of" a party have reportedly succeeded, the "correct" (as I understand it) process is to name each passenger as a claimant (on the same claim form). If you didn't do that (and for 4 of you, you would have had to do in paper form, not online), I'm not sure whether you can add the others at this stage. (I'd ring the court service and ask.) The other passengers could make their own claims and rack up more costs for the airline to pay when they lose. Alternatively, as you have a while to go before the 6 year deadline kicks in, you could proceed as an individual and then the others could use your win to seek their compensation. (They wouldn't be able to claim interest if there is no court claim, mind you.)Hope I can draw on the wisdom and knowledge available on these boards to help me.
The whole process is already covered in the FAQs and postings so use that and you should have a good prospect of winning.0 -
When yo are filling the forms in how do you work 600Euros into Pounds, what rate do you use?0
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leicsmarkyr wrote: »When yo are filling the forms in how do you work 600Euros into Pounds, what rate do you use?
Exchange rate on the date of delay.0 -
Exchange rate on the date of delay.
I'd always go for the current rate if that's more favourable. The compensation due is a Euro amount so using a "worse" rate at the delay date would actually leave you with a Euro deficit at today's rate.
Posts 223 and 224 refer.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64447428#Comment_644474280 -
I'd always go for the current rate if that's more favourable. The compensation due is a Euro amount so using a "worse" rate at the delay date would actually leave you with a Euro deficit at today's rate.
Posts 223 and 224 refer.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64447428#Comment_64447428
Yes. But I think this would be wrong. Practice directions (the rule book for "this game we love to play so much") are pretty clear:PRACTICE DIRECTION 16 – STATEMENTS OF CASE
9.1 Where a claim is for a sum of money expressed in a foreign currency it must expressly state:
(1) that the claim is for payment in a specified foreign currency,
(2) why it is for payment in that currency,
(3) the Sterling equivalent of the sum at the date of the claim, and
(4) the source of the exchange rate relied on to calculate the Sterling equivalent.
Of course, my experience of the small claims court is that such matters of detail are often overlooked. But this is definitely what is meant to happen - and how you should calculate your claim, I think.
By date of the claim, I understand this as the date from which the claim arises, rather than the date on which the court papers are served on the defendant. But no doubt our learned friends will be able to confirm.0 -
The exchange rate for me is better last year then today so that a positive. I have used last year exchange rate0
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Yes. But I think this would be wrong. Practice directions (the rule book for "this game we love to play so much") are pretty clear:
Of course, my experience of the small claims court is that such matters of detail are often overlooked. But this is definitely what is meant to happen - and how you should calculate your claim, I think.
By date of the claim, I understand this as the date from which the claim arises, rather than the date on which the court papers are served on the defendant. But no doubt our learned friends will be able to confirm.
Thanks Vauban, that's very interesting. I've not seen that PD16 referred to previously.
As you say "the date of the claim" is potentially ambiguous.
I do think it is ridiculous that you could receive less (in current Euro terms) than the Directive entitles you to, simply because of exchange rate movements - or rather, the failure of the airline to compensate at the right time.0 -
I filed for the default decree first thing this morning and a Notice of dispute has now appeared this evening, though I cannot view it . It also says transfer(civil case) just above it.
The deadline for them to have responded with a counterclaim or notice of dispute was yesterday, so surely the courts should not have accepted this?? I have emailed them(court) to see what they say, but I am not amused.
Or have I got this wrong and is it something else?
Why did they do nothing for the whole 6 weeks they were given to respond, and then just send something in late and why did the court accept it??
What can I expect next and over what period of time?
Thanks
I queried the courts accepting this late Notice of Dispute i.e. after my application for default decree was logged on the online system and I'm not sure if it has had any effect. I was really annoyed that they accepted it and was told, when I queried it, that the deadline date (9thJuly) was only a guideline!! What's the point then? So, I emailed back to express my displeasure at this.
I received a notice of hearing for September(online) and have gone back in today and it says "refer to judge for direction" and when I go to see future hearings, where it had listed the hearing, there's nothing there anymore, though the document is still in the case events bit
Any ideas what this all means anyone pls?0 -
Bump..anyone re above please?0
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