MSE News: 'I'm on benefits but I'm no scrounger'

Derivative · 19 February 2012 at 3:12PM

triplefire wrote: »

Anger at fraudsters is logical, but how on earth can a human being say they are tired of people with genuine disabilities complaining about the (far from generous) benefits in the UK?

Whether or not benefits are generous is personal opinion!

To me, £11k before housing is a tiny, almost unlivable amount given that OP runs a car.
But £11k after housing is a huge, palatial amount of money and the only 'struggle' that exists would be as a result of any disability, not the amount of benefits claimed...

Which makes knowing more details incredibly important. We are potentially talking about a doubling in income here if 'unseen' costs are taken into account.

It is tiresome to hear people complain that £11k plus housing costs, awarded purely as a consequence of living in the UK is a small amount.

And it is equally tiresome to be continually inundated with implications that we are somehow 'less human' if we question the amounts on offer. You are stooping to the same level as people screaming 'scrounger' - name calling, straying from the facts.

Doom_and_Gloom · 19 February 2012 at 4:59PM

As I have already stated you are not scroungers no - you should be claiming.

However just over 11k has to be wrong unless you have savings!
Out of work benefit (ESA/IB/JSA etc) works out to be over 5.5k.
CTC itself is another over 5.5k.
Total so far is just over 11k.
CB is over 1.7k so already we are at over 12.5k which is more than the just a bit over 11k. The only way it could be less is if it is income based and you have savings as then the out of work benefit goes down.
CTB and HB/LHA not in the above.
Saying about savings though I have my doubts that savings within the limits (up to 16k) would make the entitlment just over 11k.

I understand the stigma of being on benefits. As I said I am disabled and get DLA and my fiance works part time so we do get LHA and CTB that is reduced by his wage and our savings (we have over 6k) however I try not to let those comments get to me. We can't help how things are and even though I have been advised against working I am looking for a part time job anyway that I could do with my disability (I do not want to be on the rubbish heap at 22!).
It is difficult getting a job when you are obviously not 'normal' as I know all too well. When I hand a CV in somewhere on my crutches or, more likely, in my wheelchair it is obvious something is wrong with me. Something so obvious does put off employers as they try and work out how much time you will have to take off because of it, the adjustments that may need to be done etc. It isn't right but right now it is an employers market no matter how much we may fight it a 'healthy' person is more likely to get picked certainly how things are now.

I understood the article - It isn't easy to be on benefits and people may judge you for it. However when it says about the 26k cap to be in place and getting just over 11k it does raise eyebrows to those of us who know about these things as just over 11K does not look correct no matter how you try to add things up.

WillBanyard · 19 February 2012 at 5:28PM

Any "system" which allows people to fraudulently claim benefit is the entity at fault. It's all very well publicising and criticising individual cases, but all the constant confusion should lead the country to believe the current system should be changed.

As many people have pointed out, there is a distinct lack of information in this story, leaving unanswered questions and holes to pick in the case.

To us "citizens" the amounts of money we hear in the media are wasted on fraudulent and undeserving benefit cases seem large, millions/billions etc. These are in comparison small compared to global debts and investments, only some of which make it to the national news. What was it? One Trillion, that is the current national debt of our developed and affluent country?

It's a cynical idea, but possibly our attention is being brought to these comparibly small cases of mis-management of finance to distract us from the massive issues. The transpiring arguments that ensue are heated, but revolve around two things; someone else has more/less money than me, and, someone else is getting something that I am not.

Finances and related class/place in society, more things to divide the population over and stop us all from working together.

john539 · 19 February 2012 at 7:22PM

The original post was about someone who is disabled & claiming benefits, being treated like a scrounger, the prejudices & discrimination, the stigma & demonisation they face.

meher · 19 February 2012 at 9:01PM

there is always a problem in relying on anecdotal cases because it would often go like this this

response wrote:

author wrote:

many recipients are fraudulent. There is no evidence to support this, other than a few, extreme anecdotal cases.

Maybe. But what is your account of your own disabilities - for which you deserve, of course, great sympathy - but another anecdotal case?

Wingus · 20 February 2012 at 6:54AM

WoW, awesome thread, i'm highly amused, yet i feel the same way as the OP story, and many others on benefit, that we are all being victimised, not because we have a disability, or any other underlying, true and verifiable conditions, but just because we claim benefits. I am guessing that's the whole point of this thread.

I have rummaged through quite a few replies, and i find it amusing at the ignorance, and quite frankly scalding insults at the OP. I'm also amazed at the tremendous amount of people that seem to know everything about benefits all of a sudden. Hell, you should all be benefit advisors, almost guaranteed the possition there.

This is all i seem to hear in the news, at any one time, how the "taxpayer" pays for benefits. Perhaps they do, but they also pay the bankers, the cicil servants, and defense budget, amongst many other things. Your tax does not automatically go straight to the next person in the street that's claiming benefits, it's a rather complex system, that quite frankly none of yolu would understand if they told you.

Dont forget though, you also pay benefits to those NOT in the UK as well, can't leave them out can we, since those that bash the benefit claimants seem to want to get thier say. Perhaps you should lobby government instead of post on a forum, ahhh you wont do that, you dare not take on a system that can fight back.

Anyway, back to the OP topic, i dont believe your a fraud, unlike what we see in the papers almost every day. I can almost guarantee, those with debilitating illness, they dont want the illness, they never asked for it, and quite frankly dont deserve it. I wont stigmatise you, or anyone else for claiming what your entitled to, after all, the law says your entitled to it ( if anyone has a problem with that, then talk to those that make the law).

All i can really add now is, i wish you all the best for your family, and hope you can cope the best you can with life, the best way you can. God forbid if anyone else, a benefit basher, had to go through your illness, and claimed benefits.

Mupette · 20 February 2012 at 9:46AM

makes me wonder where people get their facts about benefit money from.

Benefits staff don't know half the time what people's entitlements are, websites like turn 2 us get it wrong..

yet the users on here are armchair experts, based on... what exactly.

Even when i checked up on mine for when my circumstances change in June, people on here said it was one amount, now apparently a computer in the benefits agency thinks i should be getting a different amount in June, what i will actually receive could be anyone's guess.

Yet users on here are adamant that they are right, that everyone else is wrong.

Why is it so important that you need to know to the final penny what they family have coming in? What business is it of ours.

Is it one up man ship, as long as they live under the breadline then that's ok, or is it they might have more than what the benefits agency say is the amount, oh the up roar.

Don't think for a second that putting themselves on the very public display was taken lightly, that the benefits agency are checking and double checking their figures.

So we have a few groups here, those that understand, perhaps they are in a very similar boat.

Those that work and begrudge anyone on benefits and deem everyone a scrounger and a cheat, but will not accept that most screw ups are the actual systems and staff errors and not all the claimants, again its the oh i saw it in the mail so it must be true'

and those trolls that care for nothing and no one just petty minded stirrers.

The system is broke, but rather than fix it lets just stick to our little groups we gather in, and verbally abuse and assault those that actually rely on these benefits.

So which group do you belong to?

Paul_Herring · 20 February 2012 at 10:04AM

scootw1 wrote: »

thedrsmisses wrote: »

feel free to read Ross' response to the many questions asked on page 19.

I can see nowhere on page 19 where Ross has said how much he ACTUALLY gets in benefits.

Hey - consider both yourselves lucky. I don't even have a page 19. These comments were on page 12, and the links at the bottom only go up to page 15...

Mupette · 20 February 2012 at 10:24AM

iamthedoctor77 wrote: »

Ok, so you have all had a read and time to digest. Sorry it has taken me a while to get on here but my twitter has been manic with people contacting me, some offering support, some requesting mine. Now if you want a penny by penny breakdown, as Martin was kind to point out, that is not the point of the article I wrote. Some of the more scathing types among you who "fail to understand" have only proved the point I was attempting to make with the article anyway, so for that, thankyou.

Just to clear a few myths up:
1. I am bottom DLA after losing a Tribunal appeal. Therefore there is 0 entitlement to both the mobility component nor carers allowance.
2. My children are not for discussion here. They were mentioned in the article because they are relevant, not for some to appraise our parenting skills.
3. Our youngest is 2, I cannot change a nappy nor perform any tasks which require 2 hands. Hence why Mrs NotAScrounger is not working at the moment. We need her here. Incidentally my partner doesn't and never has claimed as she is not entitled to.

Back to the point. I wrote this article to highlight how differently treated people are if they are unlucky enough to end up in a situation where they have to claim through no fault of their own. The entire point of paying National Insurance is, as stated by OhDrat earlier, meant as an insurance you pay whilst your working for the hard times. What give a person the right to judge who is worthy and who isn't? Tarring with the same brush is such a narrow minded outlook on life. These types of people assume I don't know what hard work is. I suggest they have no idea of the feeling one has as Christmas approaches, no HP or credit cards here. Nor can they for an instant imagine battling the inner demons that surface once cabin fever has set in and you feel as though your lying on a scrap heap, as these judgemental types have already written you off. When I do get back in work, which I will, I hope I don't have to suffer an interview with someone as smug as the blinded few who didn't manage to open their minds to the article.

I am not just a National Insurance number, nor an NHS patient number, I am a person who hates the situation my family is in. It will end, I'll make sure of it. I will use my last breath to fight for people who are treated like this. Why is there such a culture at the moment for people to light the torches and grab the pitch forks and kick people when they are down? All because you fail to understand the maths? Or because you dis-believe the person in front of you?

I would urge anyone who is teetering side saddle on a high horse, think before you judge. It would appear that job security vanished about the same time as empathy. No one is guaranteed anything, I didn't ask for this, I am just trying to get my family through this in the best way possible. I am sure that others, many much worse off than us, would appreciate it if you eased up on your outward attitude to people. Wonder if you would treat ex servicemen, who now have to rely on disability, in the same manner? Point being, there is no difference, although the journey is different, the destination is the same.

On the flip side, the vast majority of you on here, Twitter and Facebook completely got it and have been very kind and supportive. I have had many suggestions to open a blog to assist others, covering health matters, housing, complaints, and benefits amongst other topics. I have started story boarding it today and start building it tomorrow. I will post on my Twitter when the blog goes live. I have to keep busy and if no one is willing to employ me then at least I can help some other people. Some of the stories you have been coming to me with are incredibly touching including some who have had to leave full time education due to caner and are struggling. I will help where/if I can, or I'll point you to someone/organisation that can. Might as well use my experience for something useful.

So for all of you that have been and are being supportive, thankyou. That includes all that have supported me at MSE Towers. Plus a massive thankyou from me and my family to Martin Lewis for taking the time to listen. Will be on here as frequently as I can, or if you wish to get intouch, my Twitter is at the bottom of the article.

Paul_Herring wrote: »

Hey - consider both yourselves lucky. I don't even have a page 19. These comments were on page 12, and the links at the bottom only go up to page 15...

The post they are referring too.

MSE_Martin · 20 February 2012 at 11:12AM

PLEASE STOP IT

For heavens sake people don't force me to close this thread. If you want to discuss the pros and cons of benefits that's fine.

Yet I will not have a family demonised on here.

These are people living a difficult enough life as it is. Stop and think for a second. The academic discussion people are having is upsetting the man and his wife. Is it really worth it.

The aim of publishing this article was to show people how it FEELS to be on benefits - what its like for those who don't know. It was never aimed at being a dissection of exactly what is available.

Many of you have shown you're capable of doing that in a range of scenarios (though how accurate they are to one individuals life I dont know). I refuse to ask this man to divulge more in this bear pit.

Some of you are showing your familiarity with the numbers. Yet to turn that into an interrogation is effectively using it as a stick to beat a man already stuggling. Can you not see the irony of what you're doing on the back of a piece where someone is writing about how degraded by the process he feels.

Ross was excited when I suggested he write the piece - he felt he'd had an opportunity to get his confidence back, to feel like he could do something constructive. That was one of the reasons for doing this - please don't destroy that.

On facebook and twitter the reaction was to think about the man and the impact on his life. While I understand here there's more a focus on the numbers - PLEASE SHOW SOME RESPECT OR AT LEAST EMPATHY - you may be posting with your anonymity in tact, Ross and his family aren't - there are children involved here.

Please stop this bear pit and what is becomig close to bullying.

I haven't been though every post, I'm doing this on a train and have dodgy internet connection, if there are any abusive posts please report them to [EMAIL="forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com"]forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL] as usual.

Martin

MSE News: 'I'm on benefits but I'm no scrounger'

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