Share Dealing Discussion Area

sabretoothtigger · 16 April 2011 at 5:44PM

Holy hyperlink Batman, awesome

northerner77 wrote: »

Also, how do I find out what Glencore's initial share price is likely to be? (See Economist article)

The price doesnt matter, you mean whats the market cap and then how is that relative to recent earnings, profit margin expectations and future revenue etc

Ive no idea but I assume they make alot of profit and PE will rate them maybe as high as 20 on the IPO
Sometimes its cheaper to buy after the IPO, market now could be considered high

Defensive could be a stock in the business of defence! Mod contractors are considered sometimes that way though not now due to likely cuts (hence I think them cheap)

Defensive is an non discretionary business not likely to decline if peoples incomes should fall.
This can be surprising, pizza hut went up I think because people go to restaurants less and order in

1st_timer_2 · 16 April 2011 at 6:25PM

As my name suggests, I am a complete novice when it comes to buying shares. I would like to purchase £5000 of shares in an oil company. What is the best way to do this without giving away too much money apart from the investment

northerner77 · 17 April 2011 at 3:18PM

JamesU wrote: »

Hi Northerner77, welcome to MSE. From a quick Google, this is a reasonable description:

Depends on how you perceive the current economic climate. Some may argue defensive shares are appropriate and undervalued at present, others that there are better shares to invest in elsewhere if we are coming out of recession. But in any case, there are examples of defensive shares across various sectors in the link below. The article was published in Sept 2010 though, so the data on FTSE 350

JamesU

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Holy hyperlink Batman, awesome

Defensive is an non discretionary business not likely to decline if peoples incomes should fall.

Thanks to both of you. How do I go about researching on the internet a company like

R WISEMAN DAIRIES

and would they be considered a defensive stock?

JamesU · 17 April 2011 at 7:49PM

northerner77 wrote: »

Thanks to both of you. How do I go about researching on the internet a company like R WISEMAN DAIRIES and would they be considered a defensive stock?

Yes, RWD is a defensive stock as in the table from previous post.

It is not too difficult to research defensive stocks from first principles, can obtain a pretty good overview quite quickly with practice. Might be a useful approach for other OPs also, so here we go:

Access the UK all share index (ASX) using a chosen info source, many are free to use, just register if this is requested, Digital Link for example where you can see various UK FTSE indices straight away:

http://www.digitallook.com/dlmedia/investing/uk_shares

Then click on FTSE all share (ASX) in order to find listed UK shares:

http://www.digitallook.com/security.cgi?csi=50100&username=&ac=

Click on the "constituents" tab in the link above to see a list of individual shares, scroll down and click on Robert Wiseman Dairies:

http://www.digitallook.com/cgi-bin/dlmedia/security.cgi?username=&ac=&csi=13361

You can get a huge amount of info about the company in the section on RWD by clicking through various tabs in the link above. OPs often assess this type of info to understand the company history, fundamentals, performance and prospects. With practice this is a reasonable starting point for making an informed decision regarding choice of company for investing purposes.

The info obtained above is not the whole story though. This is usually supplemented with DIY reading in the chosen sector and particular company. Lots of possible sources for this too. Using IC as an example, you can read up on discussion articles on the sector, competitors and prospects:

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/MarketsAndSectors/Sectors/article/20101221/fd574f6a-0cf3-11e0-a5ce-00144f2af8e8/A-mixed-hamper-for-food-producers.jsp#

And read up on the specific company RWD itself:

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/Companies/ByEvent/Results/Analysis/article/20101116/9094930c-f0a5-11df-8ac5-00144f2af8e8/Robert-Wiseman-story-turns-sour.jsp

And read up on alternative companies such as a major competitor DCG with (possibly) better prospects:

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/Tips/Buy/TipsOfTheWeek/article/20101111/05708e80-ed9d-11df-a20a-00144f2af8e8/Cheese-pleases-Dairy-Crest.jsp

It only takes 10-15 min with practice. Hope this provides some insight. But do note, the above are based on the example you mentioned; the sector and companies described above are not recommendations.

JamesU

northerner77 · 18 April 2011 at 9:01AM

JamesU, thanks for those brilliant pointers. How come the Investors Chronicle articles you linked to worked ok yet when I searched company info I got 'invited' to sign up for subscription?

Hardly a defensive stock but novice comment coming up....I am wondering how Lloyds Banking Group can not be a sure buy right now (for the medium term)? Bailed out & spoilt so much already by the govt prior to future sell off...

Northerner

Unifees_2 · 18 April 2011 at 10:41AM

Just saying "Hi"
I started buying shares late last year, mainly AIM stocks- which so far are doing ok! Total novice at this by the way.
I keep reading about people who divi chase, does anyone on here do this succesfully- or is it an urban myth?

Biggles · 18 April 2011 at 10:58AM

Unifees wrote: »

I keep reading about people who divi chase, does anyone on here do this succesfully- or is it an urban myth?

Some people like to specialise in shares that pay good dividends.

But if you mean buy the shares just ahead of the dividend and then get out with a profit, that doesn't work and never has; the share price drops by the amount of the dividend, so you are just back to hoping the share price performs in the normal way.

JamesU · 18 April 2011 at 1:56PM

northerner77 wrote: »

JHow come the Investors Chronicle articles you linked to worked ok yet when I searched company info I got 'invited' to sign up for subscription?

I am wondering how Lloyds Banking Group can not be a sure buy right now (for the medium term)?

When searching if you get "invited" across the screen of the article just click cross in box in top right hand corner of invite to decline and it should go away, works for access to allowed articles and then read without interference, for most recent (e.g. latest articles that are published in the weekly magazine and a few weeks after this) cannot expect everything for nothing. But a lot of stuff on IC, especially less recent articles, are free access. Access to other articles is free if you simply register. Then for most recent articles, more powerful and unlimited specific searches, access to all buy/sell recommendations on shares, funds, etfs etc, historical data and archived articles, you need to take out a subcription with IC advantage (around £125/yr at a guess when not discounted). Should not rely completely on the recommendations of course. Similarly with e.g. DL, lot of free info but if you want something more substantial (e.g. specialised technical analysis with charting greater than 6 mths, real time price data etc) you need to pay for that. Same with lots of other providers, so a trade off between cost and info/services needed; for a lot of OPs, probably not necessary to pay for anything in order to reach reasonably informed decisions.

Regarding LLOY, have a look at them from first principles just like with the example on RWD previously and see if your thoughts and rationale are still the same. For sure they have dropped significantly over the last six months, price possibly around what the Government paid for them. But there are also a number of reasons why the prospects for this bank are not favourable relative to other options, and it is quite likely that at least two others banks in the UK sector have better prospects in the medium term.

JamesU

sabretoothtigger · 18 April 2011 at 2:20PM

I prefer Lloyds mostly because they are seen as less exciting. It is mostly uk housing and also some bad company loans by hbos.
Eventually the worth of that debt will decrease but the housing value will perform better, that positive ratio for the bank should mean they do survive profitably.

Like with Northern Rock they were encouraging many to just switch away. So that means the debt is repaid and the bank can close the loan at some profit.

The ideal scenario is 25 years of reliable interest payments but any return over 100% lent would mark an improvement over what is expected often and reflected in that share price I think

The recent reform news doesnt seem to have been too bad, is that over

Monday April 18 

INTERIMS 
Avacta Group 

INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
Consumer Confidence Indicator (EU) (10:00) 

FINALS 
DDD Group, LiDCO Group, M. P. Evans Group, NetDimensions Holding Ltd. (DI), Phaunos Timber Fund Ltd. 

ANNUAL REPORT 
Petropavlovsk 

IMSS 
Kenmare Resources 

EGMS 
Ashmore Global Opportunities EUR Shares, Ashmore Global Opportunities GBP Shares, Ashmore Global Opportunities USD Shares, Castle Asia Alternative PCC Ltd., Marshall Wace TOPS Global Alpha UCITS Fund, Marshall Wace TOPS Global Alpha UCITS Fund EUR, Marshall Wace TOPS Global Alpha UCITS Fund USD, OSJC Transcontainer GDR (Reg S) 

AGMS 
Ashmore Global Opportunities EUR Shares, Ashmore Global Opportunities GBP Shares, Ashmore Global Opportunities USD Shares, CLS Holdings 

FINAL EX-DIVIDEND DATE 
Sagicor Financial Corp. 

Q1 
Lilly (Eli) & Co 

UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
Rightmove House Prices (m/m,y/y) (0.01) 

Tuesday April 19 

INTERIMS 
Character Group, Egdon Resources, Imperial Innovations Group 

INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE 
Interior Services Group 

INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
Consumer Confidence (JPN) 
Machine Tool Orders (JPN) 
PMI Manufacturing Survey (FRA) (08.00) 
PMI Service Sector Survey (FRA) (08.00) 
PMI Manufacturing Sector (GER) (08:30) 
PMI Service Sector Survey (GER) (08:30) 
PMI Manufacturing Sector Survey (EU) (09:00) 
PMI Service Sector Survey (EU) (09:00) 
PMI Composite Index (EU) (09:00) 
Current Account (EU) (09:00) 
New Car Registrations (EU) (10:00) 
Construction Output (EU) (10:00) 
Building Permits (US) (13:30) 
Housing Starts (US) (13:30) 

GMS 
Bank Pekao SA GDS (Reg S), Independent Media Distribution 

FINALS 
GLOBO, Hasgrove, Surgical Innovations Group 

IMSS 
NCC Group, Promethean World, Reed Elsevier 

EGMS 
European Convergence Properties Co 

AGMS 
Atlantic Global, Bank Pekao SA GDS (Reg S), Cathay International Holdings Ltd., European Convergence Properties Co, Finansbank GDR (Reg S), Invesco Perpetual UK Small Companies Inv Trust, Management Consulting Group, Mediwatch, Promethean World, Royal Bank of Scotland Group, Symphony International Holdings Ltd. 

TRADING ANNOUNCEMENTS 
SABMiller 

Wednesday April 20 

INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE 
Close Brothers Group, Haynes Publishing Group, Matrix Income & Growth 2 VCT, News Corp. 'A' Shares 

INTERIM EX-DIVIDEND DATE 
Carr's Milling Industries, James Halstead, JD Wetherspoon, Mcbride, Ultimate Finance Group 

QUARTERLY EX-DIVIDEND DATE 
Caterpillar Inc., Colgate-Palmolive Co, JPMorgan Claverhouse Inv Trust 

INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
Producer Price Index (GER) (07:00) 
Existing Home Sales (US) (15:00) 
Crude Oil Inventories (US) (15:30) 

FINALS 
Aseana Properties Ltd., Home Retail Group, Integra Group GDR (Reg S) 

IMSS 
Computacenter 

AGMS 
Angel Biotechnology Holdings, Bunzl, Charter International, Dialight, Hunting, Lavendon Group, LSL Property Services, Meggitt, Modern Water, Reed Elsevier, STV Group 

TRADING ANNOUNCEMENTS 
DS Smith 

UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
BoE Interest Rate Minutes (09:30) 
Public Sector Finances (09:30) 

FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE 
Heavitree Brewery, Heavitree Brewery 'A' Shares, Lancashire Holdings, Law Debenture Corp. 

FINAL EX-DIVIDEND DATE 
Aga Rangemaster Group, BAE Systems, Balfour Beatty, Brady, Churchill China, Dunedin Income Growth Inv Trust, EMIS Group, Fiberweb, GKN, Greggs, Hellenic Carriers Ltd., Invesco Perpetual UK Small Companies Inv Trust, Johnson Service Group, Kazakhmys, Legal & General Group, Lookers, Molins, National Express Group, North Midland Construction, office2office, Petrofac Ltd., Portmeirion Group, Reed Elsevier, Regus, Resolution Ltd., ReThink Group, StatPro Group, T Clarke, Tullett Prebon, Vitec Group, Xstrata, Zotefoams 

Q1 
Reckitt Benckiser Group, Virgin Media Inc. 

Thursday April 21 

INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE 
British Sky Broadcasting Group, Brooks Macdonald Group, Craneware, Develica Deutschland Ltd., Downing Absolute Income VCT 1, Renewable Energy Generation Ltd., Smiths Group, Trading Emissions, Waterman Group 

INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
IfO Business Climate (GER) (09:00) 
IfO Current Assessment (GER) (09:00) 
IfO Expectations (GER) (09:00) 
Initial Jobless Claims (US) (13:30) 
Leading Indicators (US) (15:00) 
Philadelphia Fed Index (US) (15:00) 

FINALS 
Eurasia Drilling Co Ltd. GDR (Reg S), Vimetco GDR NV GDR (Reg S) 

IMSS 
Persimmon, William Hill 

AGMS 
African Barrick Gold , Anglo American, Capital & Counties Properties , Capital Drilling Ltd. (DI), H&T Group, JSC Halyk Savings Bank of Kazakhstan GDR (Reg S), Komercni Banka GDR (Level 1), Mentum Inc., New Europe Property Investments, Persimmon, Rotork, SThree, Taylor Wimpey, Ultra Electronics Holdings, W H Ireland Group, Wolfson Microelectronics 

UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
BBA Mortgage Lending Figures (09:30) 
Internet Retail Sales (09:30) 
Retail Sales (09:30) 
Trends in Lending (09:30) 

FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE 
All Leisure Group, IDOX, Low & Bonar 

Q1 
Autonomy Corporation, Telekomunikacja Polska GDR (Reg S) 

Friday April 22 

EGMS 
Comstar United Telesystems GDR (Reg S) 

AGMS 
Elementis 

INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS 
Business Survey Overall Demand (FRA) (07:45) 
Production Outlook Indicator (FRA) (07:45)

northerner77 · 18 April 2011 at 3:51PM

JamesU wrote: »

Regarding LLOY, have a look at them from first principles just like with the example on RWD previously and see if your thoughts and rationale are still the same. For sure they have dropped significantly over the last six months, price possibly around what the Government paid for them. But there are also a number of reasons why the prospects for this bank are not favourable relative to other options, and it is quite likely that at least two others banks in the UK sector have better prospects in the medium term.

JamesU

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

I prefer Lloyds mostly because they are seen as less exciting. It is mostly uk housing and also some bad company loans by hbos.
Eventually the worth of that debt will decrease but the housing value will perform better, that positive ratio for the bank should mean they do survive profitably.

Like with Northern Rock they were encouraging many to just switch away. So that means the debt is repaid and the bank can close the loan at some profit.

The ideal scenario is 25 years of reliable interest payments but any return over 100% lent would mark an improvement over what is expected often and reflected in that share price I think

I'm not suggesting RBS now are a solid buy but how do they compare theoretically?

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