We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
NPower gas 'sculpting'
Options
Comments
-
colonelhall wrote: »There's a good chance that you will becharged closer to the 4572 figure, if they stick to the current schedule. The main problem relates to the period May - November 2007.
You made me smile colonel. Is it we are getting so used to npower that if their charges are 'about right-more or less' then we are satisfied. They haven't got the 4572 right for me in the past 5 years. My last bill was only for a 20 day period and that was over by 100 high units. If they put on their web prices 'We will only only charge 4572 ish units a year' I'd be happy with that lol.0 -
Received a response from npower to the letter I sent them.(see previous posts) It was in the form of an unsolicited phone call from them. The call was brief as I told the rep that I wasn't going to debate the matter over the phone and requested a response in writing which he said he would do. He said he did want to make a couple of points so I let him.
First was that he said they weren't required to notify the change of 'sculpting' (the word he used) in November as it wasn't a price increase.
Second was that he was going to raise it to an executive complaint (or something like that). He said it would then go into deadlock as the Ombudsman wouldn't consider these cases. He said and was careful to stress that he wasn't 100% sure of this but was 95% sure of it.
I told him that was ok because I wasn't going to go to the Ombudsman I was going to court as in my letter. End of conversation.
I suspect he had received advice from above and had been instructed to phone and make the denials in order to cover themselves in some way. I await their letter and if I ever get one I will of course keep you all informed.
My view is this is all tactics. I don't think Energywatch are addressing this problem and if the Ombudsman won't deal with it where do you go? npower deadlock it and dig their heels in. Only place is county court. Customer may or may not win. npower willing to take the risk on that as they will probably settle out of court with anyone who is determined enough to go that far and they hope it will die a death. Disgruntled customers will switch but they probably figure at least as many will switch from others suppliers to them. That approach for them is far better than say refunding a few million customers £40 or so.
Will let the time limit I put on them pass then file the court papers and see where we go from there.0 -
I wouldn't believe them about the ombudsman - it won't take much to ask them anyway, and it'll cost npower per complaint...0
-
Ombudsman confirmed they wouldn't deal with it. Energy Watch have written to npower asking for explanation. I spoke to E.W. and chap said there had been a few complaints about this and so far it was being treated as a pricing issue so they wouldn't deal with it if that were the case but to wait and see what npowers response was. Feeling dizzy after going round in circles.0
-
Energy watch general call handlers give default responses based upon the information updates they recieved. I of course got the default answer, nothing they can do, cant help you on this occasion.
I made a complaint that they didnt understand and spoke to a team leader, and got the response that they do understand the situation, and had written to npower of an explanation, in which that energywatch did not agree with it, but they have no powers to enforce anything and have thus referred it to ofgem. Once ofgem make a decision, then energywatch may be able to act on behalf of ourselves. Ofgem are currently accumulating evidence currently, so send it in !!0 -
Regarding nPowers excuse that they were not required to inform customers of the sculpting changes (insisting that this was not a price change), refer to the Standard Licence Condition 23.3b (sometimes also referred to as Suppliers Licence Condition).
http://epr.ofgem.gov.uk/document_fetch.php?documentid=13010
Notification of unilateral variation
23.3 If, in accordance with the terms of a Domestic Supply Contract with a Domestic Customer, the licensee unilaterally varies a term of the contract:
(a) to increase the Charges for the Supply of Gas to a Domestic Premises; or
(b) in any other way that is to the significant disadvantage of the customer,
the licensee must give Notice of that variation to the customer in accordance with paragraph 23.4.
23.4 The Notice referred to in paragraph 23.3 must:
(a) have been given before the end of 65 Working Days after the date on which the variation has effect;
(b) inform the Domestic Customer that he may end the Domestic Supply Contract if the variation is unacceptable to him; and
(c) explain the effect of paragraph 23.5.
23.5 If the Domestic Customer notifies the licensee after he becomes aware (by any means) of the variation but no later than 10 Working Days after the date on which
he receives Notice given under paragraph 23.3 that he is ending the Domestic Supply Contract, the licensee must treat that variation as ineffective and neither enforce nor take advantage of it.
23.6 Paragraph 23.5 only binds the licensee if, no later than 15 Working Days after the Domestic Customer has notified the licensee in accordance with that paragraph, the licensee receives Notice under the Network Code by way of the Relevant Gas Shipper that another Gas Supplier will begin to supply the customer's Domestic Premises within a reasonable period of time after the date on which that Notice has been given.
23.7 The licensee is not required to comply with paragraph 23.3 to such extent as the Authority may direct.
0 -
Thank you for that RM5. It is the full version of the slightly altered paragraph in their terms and conditions which I referred them to in my letter. Only thing that concerned me was the 'get out' at 23.7. which is not included in their T&Cs. I phoned Ofgem for an explanation and was told that it was a bit 'loose'. However they said that as far as they knew no such direction had ever been given by the Authority and a specific request would have to be made for it. It would then be considred on its' own merits so was not a blanket exemption to all the companies for every case. I was told that if npower informed me that they had been granted such a direction then to contact Ofgem for confimation (if required) and they would be happy to confirm or deny. What a mess this industry is.0
-
DirectDebacle wrote: »Can you give the start and end dates of the period for the bill and the prices charged at the high and low rates?
Hi, yea I have bills here; the 1st bill (estimated but too high) was:
dated 15th April 2008,
Bill period 25th Dec 07 to 25th March 08;
usage:
25/12/07 to 04/01/08 = calorific value 39.430 20 (100s cubic feet) = 634 kWh; first 285 at 4.412p, next 349 at 1.915p.
04/01/08 to 25/03/08 = calorific value 39.159 153 (100s cubic feet) = 4817 kWh; first 1870 @ 6.643p, next 2947 @ 1.990p
Next bill:
dated 1st May 2008,
Bill period 25th dec 2007 to 25th March 2008;
usage;
25/12/07 to 04/01/08 = calorific value 39.430 8 (100s cubic feet) = 254 kWh, first 254 @ 4.412p.
04/01/08 to 30/04/08 = calorific value 39.130 85 (100s cubic feet) = 2674 kWh; first 2194 @ 6.643p, next 480 @ 1.990p
I know that they have altered the bill to extend up to 30/04/08 instead of 25/03/08 (which is over a month later) but I still do not understand their reasoning with the deletion of 2816 secondary units? (1st bill = 2155 first units & 3296 secondary rate units & ammended bill included 2448 first rate units & only 480 second rate units?!?!? If my friend has used approx half the units they'd estimated then surely the cost would of reduced considerably (she doesn't expect half but she doesn't expect price to go up!)?
Also if there is any kind of regulator my friend would be more than happy for her details to be added to the list of complaints.
Mel.0 -
Just to state that I did get through to N power on Tues (6th May 08) after the bank hol & I have to say I got very very frustrated with the woman on other end of phone!
Apparently their prices/charges for higher rate units reset to zero when ever there is a price increase?
So I asked if that meant that if they increased their prices 4 times a year I could be charged for 4572 units 4 times a yr?!
She said no but as my meter readings were priced on estimates then they could not possibly comment on whether my usage charges where correct or not (apparently estimated units are NOT considered when they calculate the 4572 usage allowance?); but after arguing for quite some time that estimated or not I had still paid for the stated higher rate units on my bill, I noticed that all these bills had actual meter readings either read by them or provided by me on them but these readings had not been taken into account when calculating my bills?
Why is this, she at this point transferred me through to their customer relations team who promised me a call back yesterday!
NO THEY HAVE NOT RUNG ME!
(Just to point out again that I am acting on behalf of a friend, but when I help a friend their bills become my bills & when I pretend to be them; I am them! So if they are conning my friends then they are conning me!)
Mel0 -
I know that they have altered the bill to extend up to 30/04/08 instead of 25/03/08 (which is over a month later) but I still do not understand their reasoning with the deletion of 2816 secondary units? (1st bill = 2155 first units & 3296 secondary rate units & ammended bill included 2448 first rate units & only 480 second rate units?!?!? If my friend has used approx half the units they'd estimated then surely the cost would of reduced considerably (she doesn't expect half but she doesn't expect price to go up!)?
On your first bill they have, as you rightly say, overestimated the usage. By almost double what was actually used. Because of this there are a lot more total kwh shown and this results in more lower rate units than there should have been.
In your amended bill, which has been correctly calculated with the readings given, there is a much lower total of kwh used. One of the main 'beefs' on this thread is 'sculpting'. This works by allocating varying percentages of the 4572 annual high rate to each month of the year. npower allocate 95% of the annual allowance between the months of October and April inclusive. The dates of your second bill account for slightly over half the annual 4572 allowance. They haven't deleted low rate units, your friend just didn't use enough gas for more than the 485 low rates to show. On the second bill they have charged a much higher proportion of high rate units on a reduced total kwh used which is the whole purpose of them 'sculpting' the 4572.
It would seem to me your friend is a relatively light user of gas. Over a 4 month period and those months are arguably the months of highest usage, she has used 2928 kwh gas which would give a total projected annual usage of 8784 kwh if her gas was used at that rate throughout the year. It is likely her annual usage is much lower than that. The national average for gas is around 21000 kwh per year.
She would be better off changing to a supplier that charges the high rate evenly over the year. This is more usual and equates to a high rate charge on the first 1143 kwh each quarter. For example the first bill 25/12/07-25/03/08 was a pure quarter. It would have attracted 1143 high rates charge and the balance at low rate. Half the high rate that npower applied.
Say your friend uses no gas in the spring and summer quarters then the most high units she could be charged in a year would be 2286.
Using the same criteria npower would charge 4343. At their prices that is a difference of £143.50. Worth switching wouldn't you say. Also your friend is now in the low area of the 'sculpting' cycle. From May to the end of September each month will be charged at no more than 45.72 high rate units (if they stick to their current percentages). I would recommend your friend checks out other suppliers prices and goes for one with the cheapest high rate tarrif. Make sure she very sure of how the 4572 is applied and it is transparent. As I said 1143 a quarter is usual.
If you friend has been with npower before May 2007 it is likely she has been overcharged considerably for high rate untis. The months of May to October 07 inclusive were charged at 381 high rate units per month and on 1st November were increased to 882.396 units per month for Nov Dec Jan and Feb.
For the period 1st May 07- 30th April 08 this could be as many as 6305 high rate unit for that year. If applicable then her previous bills need checking.
I hope this helps you.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 351K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.6K Spending & Discounts
- 244K Work, Benefits & Business
- 598.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.9K Life & Family
- 257.3K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards