NPower gas 'sculpting'

mute_posting

Cardew wrote: »

However so we don't get at cross-purposes(or in case I have missed something) perhaps you would give your reasoning(with examples if possible) how re-setting the 'tariff year' (not suspending it) can entail a customer paying more than 4572 units.

This quote from colonelhall gives the daily primary units charged when sculpting is in force.

For instance if they reset it on 01 May 2008, and again on, say, 01 July and again on 01 April 2009; how would this cause a customer to pay for more than 4,572 units in a 12 month period?

I think you're spot on, simply resetting their magical "tarrif year" will not have any effect if there are a set number of units that can be charged as primary in each of the 12 months, BUT (and a big but!) that relies on NPower sticking to a schedule of units for each month to charge at higer rates.....

from 11th March this year to 1st April this year they had billed me for 281 high rate units. The monthly units for March 08 on their figures is 271. So they billed me for over 31 days units in a 20 day period

I looks like at the moment, NPower could (if their claims stand up in court - which I think we're all in agreement they wont) for arguments sake, change their "tarrif year" every two months and thus have 6*4572 number of primary units each calader year. :eek:

When we publish gas charges we state that 4,572 higher-priced ‘Primary Block’ kWH will be applied each year. The year quoted is a ‘tariff year’

MP

EDIT

Looking at the figures given , there may be an error in those quoted - the quoted ones would give ~271 units for March...

February- 31.51 kwh
March - 8.76 kwh
April - 9.04 kwh

BUT, why are there less daily units for March than April - is March actually 18.76?


neither value does/would add up...

31 28.46 882.26
28 31.51 882.28
31 8.76 271.56
30 9.04 271.2
31 1.47 45.57
30 1.58 47.4
31 1.47 45.57
31 1.47 45.57
30 1.52 45.6
31 8.75 271.25
30 29.41 882.3
31 28.41 880.71

4571.27

DirectDebacle

colonelhall wrote: »

The question is, why haven't the newspapers and t.v. consumer programmes been on to this?

It isn't 'sexy' enough for them colonel.

I have contacted:
Age Concern
Help The Aged
Watchdog
My local BBC TV Station
The Guardian
The Times
Energywatch
Trading Standards
C.A.B.
My M.P.

Only response I got was from my M.P. who said he would look into it. I am awaiting the result.

DirectDebacle

I don't really want to get bogged down in the mechanics of billing. The way npower work out and present their bills is worth a separate thread all of its' own. It would be fair to say their billing system is opaque to say the least and if the regulators ever paid more than a passing glance at it npower would be made to change it to sometheing comprehensible to the average person.

Going over old territory here are the 'sculpting' percentages given to me in writing by npower on 30th April this year.

Apr 06/Apr07 2008
Jan 13.8 Jan 19.3
Feb 13.6 Feb 19.3
Mar 12.2 Mar 5.94
Apr 9.8 Apr 5.93
May 7.1 May 1.00
June 4.2 Jun 1.00
July 2.4 Jul 1.00
Aug 2.4 Aug 1.00
Sept 4.2 Sep 1.00
Oct 7.3 Oct 5.93
Nov 10.3 Nov 19.3
Dec 12.7 Dec 19.3

Total 100% Total 100%

I get a monthly rate by multiplying the % for each month by 45.72. For this year March is 271.57 and April 271.11. The difference in the daily rate is caused by a slightly higher % for March and that there are 31 days in March and 30 in April. If npower had charged from 11th March to 1st April inclusive (20 days in March and 1 in April) the maximum high rate units could only be 182. I was charged 281. How many customers have been assured that the problem last year was caused by 'suspending sculpting' and assured that from 1st November no-one will pay more than 4572. On the basis of my bill I am not convinced.

I think pursuing the 'sculpting' issue is a non-starter. I remember a conversation with one of their reps who told me all the suppliers 'sculpt'. I questioned him as to which ones and he went quiet. But if you think about it npower would rightly argue that all the other suppliers do sculpt. npower would say that suppler A sculpts at 1143 per quarter and supplier B sculpts at 381 a month etc. Difference is the other suppliers are open and honest about it and their year means 12 months and not the gobbeldygook npower come out with. So the percentages are useful and help you make sense of your bill but they are not the real issue and neither is the fact they sculpt. Brings me back to my hobby horse of a 'tariff year', what it means and how they interpret it can be applied. That is the real danger because they feel it gives them the right to alter the percentages whenever they like, to alter a year to whatever time period suits them and thus give them the freedom (in their opinion) to charge however many high rate units they like over whatever period.

Melly31

Just stumbled upon this thread whilst helping a friend with her very large Npower bills; I haven't read every post so I apologise if I am going over old ground.
I knew about the 4572 units per yr so asked for duplicate bills for my friend, she has so far been charged for 7170 in the past 12 months!
I have with her permission (as she's not good with things like this) tel N power on her behalf (ie pretending to be her), I too was given the % per month as stated above but still her bills do not make sense.

Her last bill was estimated, the reading was wrong by 60 units (not kwh) & meant that she had only used 93 units instead of the 153 they'd charged her for; so why did her amended bill increase?
1st bill 153 units = 5451 kWh total; first 2155 kWh charged at higher rate & next 3296 kWh charged at lower.
Amended bill 93 units = 2928 used; first 2448 kWh charged at higher rate & next 480 kWh used charged at lower rate!!!!

How on earth has this changed so much that her 1st bill was £174.83 & her second bill was £212.22? She's used 60 less units = 1902 kWh less!!!

I have just tried to ring them but of course its sunday so they're closed, I'll try tomorrow but won't hold my breath as its bank hol mon!

I'll let you know what pathetic excuse they try & give!

mute_posting

Melly31 wrote: »

so why did her amended bill increase?
1st bill 153 units = 5451 kWh total; first 2155 kWh charged at higher rate & next 3296 kWh charged at lower.
Amended bill 93 units = 2928 used; first 2448 kWh charged at higher rate & next 480 kWh used charged at lower rate!!!!

How on earth has this changed so much that her 1st bill was £174.83 & her second bill was £212.22? She's used 60 less units = 1902 kWh less!!!

Sounds like a very good example for the regulator - NPower are clearly completely out of control with their billing systems

DirectDebacle

Melly31 wrote: »

Just stumbled upon this thread whilst helping a friend with her very large Npower bills; I haven't read every post so I apologise if I am going over old ground.
I knew about the 4572 units per yr so asked for duplicate bills for my friend, she has so far been charged for 7170 in the past 12 months!
I have with her permission (as she's not good with things like this) tel N power on her behalf (ie pretending to be her), I too was given the % per month as stated above but still her bills do not make sense.

Her last bill was estimated, the reading was wrong by 60 units (not kwh) & meant that she had only used 93 units instead of the 153 they'd charged her for; so why did her amended bill increase?
1st bill 153 units = 5451 kWh total; first 2155 kWh charged at higher rate & next 3296 kWh charged at lower.
Amended bill 93 units = 2928 used; first 2448 kWh charged at higher rate & next 480 kWh used charged at lower rate!!!!

How on earth has this changed so much that her 1st bill was £174.83 & her second bill was £212.22? She's used 60 less units = 1902 kWh less!!!

I have just tried to ring them but of course its sunday so they're closed, I'll try tomorrow but won't hold my breath as its bank hol mon!

I'll let you know what pathetic excuse they try & give!

Can you give the start and end dates of the period for the bill and the prices charged at the high and low rates?

BobbyBlade_2

I've just worked out that I've been overcharged.
I was first supplied with Gas by Npower on 09/05/07.
Up until my last bill dated 23/04/08, I have been charged for 5154 kwh at the higher rate, so 582 more than I should have been.
I know its not as much as some people but its the principle behind it so I intend to fight them.
I would however like some guidance on how I can work out how much I've been overcharged as there have been price increases over this period. Also the two dates i have mentioned aren't yet a complete year. How will I know how many units they have charged me at the higher rate up to the 8th May, so giving a complete year?
BTW I've just requested a switch of supplier to Atlantic via energylinx.

Anne3333

I complained two weeks ago and threatened to report them to the regulator. I was told that they would get somebody senior to calculate my bills and get back to me in about a week. I said that my 'Terms and Conditions' stated that I would only pay a maximum of 4572 Higher Rate kWh in any year and that I was not interested in their Tariff Years or Sculpting, I was only prepared to pay higher rate for 4572 as stated in my contract with them. I have never had a phone call back from them, nor letter, however 3 days after my complaint I received £35 directly into my bank account 'with apologies'. I have yet to calculate the precise overcharging but doubt that is the correct amount due. I have also already sent my evidence to Ofgem for investigation, in response to their Call for Evidence against the practices of NPower. What they have done is tantamount to theft and makes a complete farce of the energy comparison websites. As for their 'Plain English' logo, are they having a laugh!

SwanJon

Couple of mentions of the Plain English Campaign.

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Would Plain English agree to renew npower's membership?

Taffyscot

Direct, Thank you very much for that detailed posting. I agree with you entirely about when is a year not a year, whenever they decide to change the price of the gas. Yes I was told on moving house and them being the supplier that the high units would be over a year, or a quarter or a month. Simply divide it by whatever they told me verbally. In the past with all utility suppliers I have asked for written confirmation of things and have never been supplied with them.
Please do tell us which supplier you have opted for you must have done a lot of ground work judging by your excellent letter to them changing suppliers.
What do you all think of Martin's comments about taking a supplier with a set charge for the next few years judging by how gas and oil prices are going up?
I have been looking into Scottish Power from reading comments on this forum but in another thread. What do you all think?
Thanks again Direct and it is exactly my sentiments about the tariff year.
Taffy