Railways, Tramways, Busways, Driverless Vehicles

modsandmockers

I started a thread recently about branch line Railway Level Crossings, and the consensus seems to be that the braking systems of modern railway trains cannot be relied upon. To me, this seems to be no less ridiculous than the idea that HGV drivers are routinely unable to see what is happening alongside the nearside length of their vehicle.

I don’t get out much these days, and so I have never seen the modern tram systems of some UK cities. How do modern trams deal with emergency stops? How did old-fashioned trams deal with emergency stops?

And what is the big deal about BusWays? Why are BusWays better than an ordinary road which is only accessible by buses?

We hear a lot about the development of driverless cars, but it is hard to imagine how they will be able to share road space with non-automated road users - the game of Chicken will become even more fun when children can be certain that they are no longer in real danger.

IMO, the perfect test-bed for driverless vehicles would be the lightly-used rural railway branch lines - let’s uproot the antiquated rail system, and replace it, initially, with driverless buses (so far as I know, there is no problem with the braking systems of modern buses). If it can be made to work, then the future possibilities would be endless.

wealdroam

modsandmockers wrote: »

I started a thread recently about branch line Railway Level Crossings, and the consensus seems to be that the braking systems of modern railway trains cannot be relied upon. To me, this seems to be no less ridiculous than the idea that HGV drivers are routinely unable to see what is happening alongside the nearside length of their vehicle.

I don’t get out much these days, and so I have never seen the modern tram systems of some UK cities. How do modern trams deal with emergency stops? How did old-fashioned trams deal with emergency stops?

And what is the big deal about BusWays? Why are BusWays better than an ordinary road which is only accessible by buses?

We hear a lot about the development of driverless cars, but it is hard to imagine how they will be able to share road space with non-automated road users - the game of Chicken will become even more fun when children can be certain that they are no longer in real danger.

IMO, the perfect test-bed for driverless vehicles would be the lightly-used rural railway branch lines - let’s uproot the antiquated rail system, and replace it, initially, with driverless buses (so far as I know, there is no problem with the braking systems of modern buses). If it can be made to work, then the future possibilities would be endless.

Is there no place in your utopia for driverless trains?

That technology is already proven and working well.

modsandmockers

wealdroam wrote: »

Is there no place in your utopia for driverless trains?

That technology is already proven and working well.

Bring it on! Does the existing technology include interaction with other systems?

wealdroam

modsandmockers wrote: »

And what is the big deal about BusWays?

Some will say that they work because there is no other traffic in the way.

modsandmockers wrote: »

Why are BusWays better than an ordinary road which is only accessible by buses?

Eh?

Surely a busway is a road which is only accessible by buses... almost by definition.

modsandmockers

wealdroam wrote: »

Some will say that they work because there is no other traffic in the way.

Yes - but who has to give way at level crossings?




Eh?

Surely a busway is a road which is only accessible by buses... almost by definition.

Yes - so why is it necessary for the buses to be 'guided' by expensive additional engineering? I genuinely don't understand.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

wealdroam wrote: »

Some will say that they work because there is no other traffic in the way.




Eh?

Surely a busway is a road which is only accessible by buses... almost by definition.

The OP may have been talking about guided busways like this one in Cambridge


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridgeshire_Guided_Busway

martindow

A busway like the one at Cambridge is reserved for buses fitted with equipment to use it. I assume that it is cheaper to construct with the guidance system as it can then be made using far less concrete than a normal roadway.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6090/6159657027_748fe47d39_z.jpg

wealdroam

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

The OP may have been talking about guided busways like this one in Cambridge


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridgeshire_Guided_Busway

Yes, it is possible that he was talking about that.

However, he may well have been talking about unguided busways like the one between Fareham and Gosport.

He has now clarified that.

esuhl

modsandmockers wrote: »

Yes - so why is it necessary for the buses to be 'guided' by expensive additional engineering? I genuinely don't understand.

I didn't either, but it sounds like its done to limit the road width that buses would otherwise need, allowing disused railway tracks to be converted for bus use... and maybe allowing smaller (cheaper) tunnels to be built.

It probably also prevents other motorists from clogging up the bus lanes.

I can't really see guided busways being useful in most situations... but I'm sure there are some.

Why is a guided bus better than a normal bus?

Because the guided bus is kept within a guideway, it can travel safely at cruising speed within a narrower space. A normal bus would either need a wider road, or need to travel much slower. This makes a difference if a bus is on a disused rail alignment (of which there are many in the UK). Similarly, tunnels can be constructed to a narrower width, and so be less costly.
Guided busways also give a smoother ride than the normal road. There are none of the dips at the side of the road for drains, while the construction is to a high standard.
The reserved track means there is no other traffic to cause delays. The service is swift, punctual and reliable

http://www.londonguidedbusway.co.uk/why-a-guided-busway.php

Johnmcl7

modsandmockers wrote: »

I started a thread recently about branch line Railway Level Crossings, and the consensus seems to be that the braking systems of modern railway trains cannot be relied upon. To me, this seems to be no less ridiculous than the idea that HGV drivers are routinely unable to see what is happening alongside the nearside length of their vehicle.

I don’t get out much these days, and so I have never seen the modern tram systems of some UK cities. How do modern trams deal with emergency stops? How did old-fashioned trams deal with emergency stops?

There's nothing wrong with the braking systems of modern trains, they take a while to stop as they have a huge amount of momentum due to their huge weight and high speeds.

Trams are usually comparatively small and their speeds are low when compared to small passenger trains never mind larger high speed passenger trains or some of the huge freight trains. As far as I'm aware they're all electric as well so they don't have to carry a diesel engine for power as many trains do.

John

Throbbe

esuhl wrote: »

I didn't either, but it sounds like its done to limit the road width that buses would otherwise need, allowing disused railway tracks to be converted for bus use... and maybe allowing smaller (cheaper) tunnels to be built.

You've got it. On guided busways the buses can pass closer together at speed which saves on the width of the required corridor. 0.5m might not sound a lot, but over several km that's a lot of land to surface (and possibly purchase).

The other selling point is the ride quality of a concrete guideway compared to a bitmac road surface.