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  • FIRST POST
    • HUMBUG
    • By HUMBUG 15th Jan 20, 2:55 PM
    • 234Posts
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    HUMBUG
    Opening Online Bank/Saving Accounts For Elderly Parent
    • #1
    • 15th Jan 20, 2:55 PM
    Opening Online Bank/Saving Accounts For Elderly Parent 15th Jan 20 at 2:55 PM
    I'm trying to figure out the best option for managing my elderly father's savings and current accounts online rather than opening branch based accounts for him (which seem to have inferior interest rates).

    I've been told that I can open an online account for him but I am not allowed to manage or operate it on his behalf (even though I have 'Lasting Power Of Attorney' ). My father is registered partially sighted, 89 yrs old and doesn't have a clue about computers or internet , etc.

    Would opening a joint account online be the best option with just my dads money to fund the account? Skipton BS have told me that would be fine if my father gave me permission but are there any pitfalls going down this route?
Page 1
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Jan 20, 3:17 PM
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    eskbanker
    • #2
    • 15th Jan 20, 3:17 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Jan 20, 3:17 PM
    I've been told that I can open an online account for him but I am not allowed to manage or operate it on his behalf (even though I have 'Lasting Power Of Attorney' ).
    Originally posted by HUMBUG
    Who told you that?

    The whole point of (financial) LPA is for the attorney to manage or operate financial affairs on behalf of the donor, hence https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/property-financial-affairs:
    Looking after money and property

    You must keep the donorís finances separate from your own, unless youíve already got something in both of your names like a joint bank account or you own a home together.

    Managing bank accounts

    Before you can manage the donorís account, you must show the bank the original registered lasting power of attorney (LPA) or a copy of it signed on every page by the donor, a solicitor or notary.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 15th Jan 20, 4:17 PM
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    xylophone
    • #3
    • 15th Jan 20, 4:17 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Jan 20, 4:17 PM
    (even though I have 'Lasting Power Of Attorney' ).
    Relative had PoA for his relative until her death last year and operated all accounts on her behalf after registering the PoA with the providers.

    You should be able to check PoA requirements on each provider's web site.
    • greyteam1959
    • By greyteam1959 15th Jan 20, 6:10 PM
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    greyteam1959
    • #4
    • 15th Jan 20, 6:10 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Jan 20, 6:10 PM
    Take a your POA into the bank of your choice & explain what you want to do.
    I did this with Santander & Nationwide for my Mum & Dad & now manage all their accounts online.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 15th Jan 20, 6:46 PM
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    Ben8282
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 20, 6:46 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 20, 6:46 PM
    You mention his 'current accounts' plural.
    You mention them being branch based and say you want to open online accounts which offer better rates.
    I can't think of any current accounts which don't offer online banking these days. Just register his accounts for online banking. Surprised he has never done this. Online banking has been around for about 20 years or so now so the days of older people not having ever done this and being clueless about computers and the interent are well past as they would not have been particularly elderly when the internet was new and online banking was first introduced. Similarly, not sure what 'better rates' you are referring to exactly or what new current accounts you plan to open for him to get these better rates. To be honest I think you would be better leaving his banking arrangements in terms of his current accounts as they are, other than to register them for internet banking.

    With regards to savings accounts ,to some extent it depends what sort of amounts of money we are talking about here with regards to the opening of joint accounts. We could be getting into deprevation of assets territory or, by transferring the money into your joint names so that on his death the money in the accounts will become yours, attempted avoidance of inheritance tax liability, depriving other beneficieries of his will of their fair share of his money and other such things so best avoided without professional financial advice.
    Last edited by Ben8282; 15-01-2020 at 6:58 PM.
    • EssexExile
    • By EssexExile 15th Jan 20, 8:06 PM
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    EssexExile
    • #6
    • 15th Jan 20, 8:06 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jan 20, 8:06 PM
    Online banking has been around for about 20 years or so now so the days of older people not having ever done this and being clueless about computers and the interent are well past as they would not have been particularly elderly when the internet was new and online banking was first introduced.
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    Age isn't just a numbers thing. My sister has no idea about, or interest in, online banking. Computers are a strange land to some people.
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
    • BooJewels
    • By BooJewels 15th Jan 20, 8:24 PM
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    BooJewels
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 20, 8:24 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 20, 8:24 PM
    I would reiterate what has already been said - this is precisely what an LPA is for. You may need to jump through hoops with some organisations in order to get it registered on the account and you'll probably have to show the original or a certified copy (I'd recommend that the solicitor keeps the original safe and you or your father has a certified copy), plus ID for yourself.

    I manage Santander accounts for my father and just logged in to my own banking one day and his accounts were in the list alongside mine - which makes it nice and easy, for me.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 15th Jan 20, 10:02 PM
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    Ben8282
    • #8
    • 15th Jan 20, 10:02 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jan 20, 10:02 PM
    OP says his father is partially sighted but has not mentioned any loss of mental capacity.
    Perhaps until such a loss of mental capacity occurs the son should just assist his father as necessary rather than take over and change all his no doubt long standing banking arrangements.
    Last edited by Ben8282; 15-01-2020 at 10:05 PM.
    • BooJewels
    • By BooJewels 15th Jan 20, 10:30 PM
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    BooJewels
    • #9
    • 15th Jan 20, 10:30 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jan 20, 10:30 PM
    OP says his father is partially sighted but has not mentioned any loss of mental capacity.
    Perhaps until such a loss of mental capacity occurs the son should just assist his father as necessary rather than take over and change all his no doubt long standing banking arrangements.
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    You don't need to have lost mental capacity for a Property and Financial Affairs LPA to be used to assist you in carrying out administrative tasks.

    a property and affairs LPA can be used even if the person has capacity to make the decision, unless they have stated in the LPA that they should make decisions for themselves when they have capacity to do so.

    and

    once the LPA is registered, the attorney is allowed to make all decisions about the donorís property and affairs even if the donor still has capacity to make the decisions for themselves.
    by from the Mental Capacity Act Code of Practice, Chapter 7:
    It's only decisions under the Health and Welfare LPA that require the donor to have lost capacity to make decisions. Helping someone perform tasks that are difficult for them doesn't necessarily mean that the Attorney is making the decisions either. As my donor has gradually lost capacity, my sister and I are increasingly making decisions on his behalf, but in the early days, it was as simple as doing his shopping and paying with our cards on his account, paying bills and checking payments had been received etc.

    Helping out can be as little or as much as the donor requires, it doesn't mean taking over their affairs wholesale if that's not what they need or prefer. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. The main guiding principle is that anything done has to be in the donor's best interests.

    It would be my suggestion that the OP registers the LPA with their father's existing banks (most have guidance and forms on their web site to do this) and this will give them access to assist, as required. They then might both decide later that new banking arrangements might be in order.
    • HUMBUG
    • By HUMBUG 16th Jan 20, 1:04 AM
    • 234 Posts
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    HUMBUG
    Many thanks for your replies . Here is a copy of the webchat with Skipton BS.

    15/1/2020 2:34 Welcome to Skipton Building Society
    2:34 Catherine has joined the conversation.

    Catherine @ Skipton
    2:35 Good Afternoon, You're through to Catherine. How can I help today?

    You
    2:36 Hello - I did have a previous webchat 20 mins ago but I forgot to ask a question. If I have lasting power of attorney for my elderly father , can I open up and manage an online savings account for him?

    Catherine @ Skipton
    2:37 Hi - accounts requiring an appointed attorney are not able to opened online, so this would be a no unfortunately

    You
    2:38 okay many thanks . That was the only question I needed answering

    Catherine @ Skipton
    2:38 Thank you for using our chat service today. We are excited to announce that our brand new Skipton App is now available to download through the app/play store. To learn more about the features and registration process please click on the following link : skipton.co.uk/mobileapp. We would also love to hear your thoughts on your experience today -https://skipton.researchfeedback.net/wh/s.asp?k=156698732099&ID=CH&TY=CO Thank you!
    2:38 Agent has left the conversation
    2:38 You have been disconnected from the chat
    • HUMBUG
    • By HUMBUG 16th Jan 20, 1:09 AM
    • 234 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    HUMBUG
    I would reiterate what has already been said - this is precisely what an LPA is for. You may need to jump through hoops with some organisations in order to get it registered on the account and you'll probably have to show the original or a certified copy (I'd recommend that the solicitor keeps the original safe and you or your father has a certified copy), plus ID for yourself.

    I manage Santander accounts for my father and just logged in to my own banking one day and his accounts were in the list alongside mine - which makes it nice and easy, for me.
    Originally posted by BooJewels
    Maybe different banks and building societies have different rules about LPA's . Looks like Skipton is a no go ! I'll ask Santander .

    Many thanks
    • HUMBUG
    • By HUMBUG 16th Jan 20, 1:17 AM
    • 234 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    HUMBUG
    You mention his 'current accounts' plural.
    You mention them being branch based and say you want to open online accounts which offer better rates.
    I can't think of any current accounts which don't offer online banking these days. Just register his accounts for online banking. Surprised he has never done this. Online banking has been around for about 20 years or so now so the days of older people not having ever done this and being clueless about computers and the interent are well past as they would not have been particularly elderly when the internet was new and online banking was first introduced. Similarly, not sure what 'better rates' you are referring to exactly or what new current accounts you plan to open for him to get these better rates. To be honest I think you would be better leaving his banking arrangements in terms of his current accounts as they are, other than to register them for internet banking.

    With regards to savings accounts ,to some extent it depends what sort of amounts of money we are talking about here with regards to the opening of joint accounts. We could be getting into deprevation of assets territory or, by transferring the money into your joint names so that on his death the money in the accounts will become yours, attempted avoidance of inheritance tax liability, depriving other beneficieries of his will of their fair share of his money and other such things so best avoided without professional financial advice.
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    Looks like a joint account might be more complicated than I thought . Many thanks.
    • HUMBUG
    • By HUMBUG 16th Jan 20, 1:19 AM
    • 234 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    HUMBUG
    Who told you that?

    The whole point of (financial) LPA is for the attorney to manage or operate financial affairs on behalf of the donor, hence https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/property-financial-affairs:
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    I've posted a copy of the webchat I had with Skipton BS in a previous post.
    • BooJewels
    • By BooJewels 16th Jan 20, 7:34 AM
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    BooJewels
    I think some of us maybe misunderstood what you were trying to achieve - opening an account online (as per your web chat with Skipton) under an LPA is somewhat different from managing his existing accounts with an LPA - the former may not be possible, the latter certainly is.

    As I mentioned in post #9 - it might be better to register the LPA with his existing banking products (it'll still take a week or two) and manage his money that way for him. And as Ben8282 mentioned earlier, be careful about moving large chunks of money about too much as if he needs care or benefits and his assets are assessed. Although when I went through that with my father, the only money question they asked was what was the balance in his current account on a particular date - they never even asked if he had other accounts, savings or any cash holdings.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 16th Jan 20, 9:41 AM
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    Vortigern
    Different banks have different rules for POA.

    My own experience is as follows:

    Halifax: Existing current account. I was given online access, cheque book and debit card. Opened further accounts online. Savings rates are poor.

    Leeds BS: Existing account. Registered POA in branch. No online access. Further accounts require branch visit.

    Santander: Opened new account in branch. Given online access but no debit card. I may have declined a cheque book.

    Paragon: Requires postal application for each new account, but can then operate online. They have both easy access and term accounts.

    HTH
    • BooJewels
    • By BooJewels 16th Jan 20, 10:05 AM
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    BooJewels
    Santander: Opened new account in branch. Given online access but no debit card. I may have declined a cheque book.
    Originally posted by Vortigern
    I got access to existing accounts (and credit card) under an LPA and did get a debit card - it's in my name, but on his account.

    So there are obviously variations within banks depending on the type and nature of the account too.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 16th Jan 20, 11:17 AM
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    eskbanker
    I think some of us maybe misunderstood what you were trying to achieve - opening an account online (as per your web chat with Skipton) under an LPA is somewhat different from managing his existing accounts with an LPA - the former may not be possible, the latter certainly is.
    Originally posted by BooJewels
    Agreed - OP does seem a bit confused and did originally say that opening wasn't an issue but that subsequent operation was the problem:
    I've been told that I can open an online account for him but I am not allowed to manage or operate it on his behalf (even though I have 'Lasting Power Of Attorney' ).
    Originally posted by HUMBUG
    It also wasn't clear (to me) that OP was referring specifically to what had been said by one small building society, rather than general rules and policies about LPAs....
    • Katiehound
    • By Katiehound 16th Jan 20, 12:04 PM
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    Katiehound
    I am sure the rules have changed since I had POA for my mother.Then I was able to operate her existing bank a/c but could not open another a/c in her name (which would have been more convenient for me.)
    Subsequently I sold her property and invested the capital using an independent advisor. She was mentally on the ball but simply physically frail.
    Being polite and pleasant doesn't cost anything!
    If you found my posting helpful please hit the "Thanks" button!
    Many thanks


    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 16th Jan 20, 1:37 PM
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    SevenOfNine
    My elderly mother's a/c is with Nat West, she has always managed it in branch. I have PoA now & they keep trying to persuade me to include internet & telephone banking, changing her habit of a lifetime & taking away 'control' (in her eyes).

    So you could try them.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • BooJewels
    • By BooJewels 16th Jan 20, 2:01 PM
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    BooJewels
    Maybe different banks and building societies have different rules about LPA's . Looks like Skipton is a no go ! I'll ask Santander .
    Originally posted by HUMBUG
    Sorry, I must have missed this earlier. I wonder if you're getting a little confused (I know I am a bit now) - an LPA may well not allow you to open new accounts and transfer your father's money in to them (with any bank) - and the application of a bit of common sense would suggest why this perhaps shouldn't be possible.

    I think the premise of an LPA is to assist in managing the donor's affairs, not necessarily make entirely new ones for them -and it's perhaps right that there should be some limitations on doing so. And one of the principles of the code of practice is that you should keep their money separate from your own.

    Whilst your father has issues that might justify some assistance, is there any reason why the two of you can't attend a bank/BS together to open a joint account - whilst he's in good mental shape and the bank staff can ascertain that he's not being co-erced?

    We did that around the same time as my father set up the LPA a couple of years ago - I have a joint account with him at one bank and my sister likewise with another (only because we couldn't all be in the same place at the same time) - staff asked us to leave the room and checked with him that he was happy with the arrangement. His solicitor had suggested this as a stop gap arrangement for either the time before the LPA was registered, or possibly after his death if bills needed paying etc. - we'd both have access to funds in an emergency. He put some money in each account and I've added to 'mine' periodically, as I sell things for him, like his car and other possessions. He's entirely funding his own care, so it doesn't make any difference to the authorities - and it's very much still his own money.
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