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    • leftholdingthebaby
    • By leftholdingthebaby 14th Jan 20, 2:38 PM
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    leftholdingthebaby
    69 year old man on low rate DLA
    • #1
    • 14th Jan 20, 2:38 PM
    69 year old man on low rate DLA 14th Jan 20 at 2:38 PM
    I am writing this post for an elderly family friend. He was on DLA High Rate Care and Mobility Lifetime Award. In 2014 he had a re-assessment of his DLA, was visited by a 'Health Care Professional' at home and had his Mobility completely removed and his High Rate Care downgraded to Low Rate Care. I do know that Lifetime and Indefinite Awards have been scrapped, but he did not appeal as he didn't know how to and I have only been told about this today.

    He's now 69 and is really struggling, can anyone please advise what he should do, is he able to ask for a re-assessment of his DLA or will he be migrated onto PIP. I know he can't apply for Attendance Allowance as he is receiving Low Rate Personal Care DLA.

    Any suggestions gratefully received. Thank you.
Page 1
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 14th Jan 20, 3:17 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #2
    • 14th Jan 20, 3:17 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jan 20, 3:17 PM
    I am writing this post for an elderly family friend. He was on DLA High Rate Care and Mobility Lifetime Award. In 2014 he had a re-assessment of his DLA, was visited by a 'Health Care Professional' at home and had his Mobility completely removed and his High Rate Care downgraded to Low Rate Care. I do know that Lifetime and Indefinite Awards have been scrapped, but he did not appeal as he didn't know how to and I have only been told about this today.

    He's now 69 and is really struggling, can anyone please advise what he should do, is he able to ask for a re-assessment of his DLA or will he be migrated onto PIP. I know he can't apply for Attendance Allowance as he is receiving Low Rate Personal Care DLA.

    Any suggestions gratefully received. Thank you.
    Originally posted by leftholdingthebaby
    It is too late to do anything about that decision now because it's exceeded the 13 months deadline.


    DLA no longer exists for those that were 65 and under on 8th April 2013 because PIP has replaced it. As he would come under that age bracket because he's 69 then he will be one of those that will be invited to apply for PIP BUT they are ridiculously behind and lots of people are still waiting to be invited.


    Reporting a changed of circumstances now would mean he will need to apply for PIP.



    PIP and DLA are different benefits with different criteria. Evidence will be needed to support the claim and a face to face assessment is most likely. DLA would continue until a decisions been made on the PIP, providing the forms are returned on time. See links.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/if-you-get-dla/


    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/personal-independence-payment-an-introduction


    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf
    • leftholdingthebaby
    • By leftholdingthebaby 14th Jan 20, 4:43 PM
    • 26 Posts
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    leftholdingthebaby
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 20, 4:43 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 20, 4:43 PM
    Thank you so much Poppy for the reply.

    Just so I can get my head around this, will he eventually have to migrate over to PIP anyway?

    If that is the case, then he may as well make a claim for it - if he did that, would his DLA continue to be paid until a decision was made?

    Many thanks.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 14th Jan 20, 6:28 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 20, 6:28 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 20, 6:28 PM
    Yes he would eventually be invited to apply for PIP. Providing the PIP forms are returned on time then his DLA will continue until a decisions been made on the PIP.
    • leftholdingthebaby
    • By leftholdingthebaby 15th Jan 20, 12:02 PM
    • 26 Posts
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    leftholdingthebaby
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:02 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:02 PM
    Thank you so much Poppy for all the advice. So now I understand that he will eventually be invited to migrate to PIP, should he apply now rather than waiting, in your opinion? Also, if he applied for PIP himself (without waiting for the migration invite) and returns the forms within the time limit, will he continue to get his current DLA paid? Sorry for all the questions.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 15th Jan 20, 12:18 PM
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    calcotti
    • #6
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:18 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:18 PM
    Thank you so much Poppy for all the advice. So now I understand that he will eventually be invited to migrate to PIP, should he apply now rather than waiting, in your opinion? Also, if he applied for PIP himself (without waiting for the migration invite) and returns the forms within the time limit, will he continue to get his current DLA paid? Sorry for all the questions.
    Originally posted by leftholdingthebaby

    I think the best way to do it is to contact DLA and say that he wants his DLA reassessed due to a deterioration in his health. He will be told he can't do this and will have to apply for PIP and he will be sent the forms to do this.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 15th Jan 20, 12:21 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:21 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:21 PM
    Also, if he applied for PIP himself (without waiting for the migration invite) and returns the forms within the time limit, will he continue to get his current DLA paid? Sorry for all the questions.
    Originally posted by leftholdingthebaby
    As previously advised, his DLA will continue.
    • Spoonie Turtle
    • By Spoonie Turtle 15th Jan 20, 12:29 PM
    • 393 Posts
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    Spoonie Turtle
    • #8
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:29 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:29 PM
    poppy did mention it but I just want to sound the warning that PIP and DLA have different criteria. It may be best to study and understand the PIP criteria, descriptors and key concepts (such as reliably, safely, repeatedly, in a timely manner) in order to prepare before triggering the PIP application, as the time limit given with the PIP forms probably isn't enough to do that as well as fill it in.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 15th Jan 20, 12:32 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #9
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:32 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:32 PM
    poppy did mention it but I just want to sound the warning that PIP and DLA have different criteria. It may be best to study and understand the PIP criteria, descriptors and key concepts (such as reliably, safely, repeatedly, in a timely manner) in order to prepare before triggering the PIP application, as the time limit given with the PIP forms probably isn't enough to do that as well as fill it in.
    Originally posted by Spoonie Turtle
    Thanks and very good point. Good place to start with that is here.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 15th Jan 20, 1:00 PM
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    calcotti
    Additional point to note when looking at PIP is that he will only be considered for the Daily Living component. He cannot be considered for the Mobility component because he is pension age.
    If the DWP refuse PIP I believe they should consider whether he might qualify for AA instead.

    EDIT: I was incorrect (see later posts). There is an exception to the normal rules for people on DLA to PIP transfer when having their first PIP assessment. Struck through to avoid misleading anyone reading this post later.
    Last edited by calcotti; 16-01-2020 at 7:21 AM.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 15th Jan 20, 1:51 PM
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    poppy12345
    Additional point to note when looking at PIP is that he will only be considered for the Daily Living component. He cannot be considered for the Mobility component because he is pension age.
    If the DWP refuse PIP I believe they should consider whether he might qualify for AA instead.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    Surely that's not correct here because of the DLA to PIP rules and he would have been under the age of 65 in April 2013. I know of others over state pension age that transferred to PIP from DLA and have been awarded mobility.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 15th Jan 20, 2:04 PM
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    ohreally
    Surely that's not correct here because of the DLA to PIP rules and he would have been under the age of 65 in April 2013. I know of others over state pension age that transferred to PIP from DLA and have been awarded mobility.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    As this chap lost entitlement to mob component 6 years ago how would your example apply in this case?
    Donít be a canít, be a can.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 15th Jan 20, 2:28 PM
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    poppy12345
    As this chap lost entitlement to mob component 6 years ago how would your example apply in this case?
    Originally posted by ohreally
    Having re-read the OP post i missed the "re-assessment in 2014"
    • leftholdingthebaby
    • By leftholdingthebaby 15th Jan 20, 3:29 PM
    • 26 Posts
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    leftholdingthebaby
    Thank you all so much for all your advice.

    What I believe is correct by what everyone is saying it:-

    Even if he applied for PIP himself (obtaining full medical evidence prior to applying) he would not be considered for the Mobility Component, only the Personal Care Component.

    The difference between DLA and PIP is there is only 2 Personal Care Awards with PIP, but there are 3 with DLA. As I said before, he currently gets the lowest rate for personal care.

    If the PIP application was turned down, could he then apply for AA as mentioned calcotti?

    I think what I have stated is correct, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong as I want to make sure I've got my facts straight before I explain it to him.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 15th Jan 20, 3:40 PM
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    calcotti
    If the PIP application was turned down, could he then apply for AA as mentioned calcotti?
    Originally posted by leftholdingthebaby
    Certainly if PIP is refused he can apply for AA.

    My understanding is that if the PIP is turned down they should automatically consider whether or not he might be eligible for AA - however I can't find official guidance on that.
    • bigbill
    • By bigbill 15th Jan 20, 5:28 PM
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    bigbill
    From Memory?

    PIP came in for NEW claims 2013 for over 16's and under 65's.

    Between 2013 - 2015 some people turning 16 or if there existing DLA was ending had to claim PIP

    From 2015 other existing DLA claimants (Under 65 before April 2013) were invited to claim PIP.

    If correct then the OP could well have been re-assessed for DLA and remained on DLA at low care in 2014?

    Again if still on low care DLA and they now claim PIP the high mobility will or should still be available to them as well as daily living in PIP.
    Last edited by bigbill; 15-01-2020 at 5:33 PM.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 15th Jan 20, 6:14 PM
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    calcotti
    All DLA claimants who were below age 65 in April 2013 will be transferred to PIP. Only claimants who had reached the age of 65 by April 2013 will stay on DLA.

    As the claimant is 69 now they were clearly below 65 in April 2013 and will therefore be invited to apply for PIP at some stage.

    Once you reach pension age it is not possible to obtain an increase in a mobility award. Therefore as claimant is not getting mobility currently they cannot be considered for a mobility award. see top of page 12 here https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs87_personal_independence_payment_fcs.pdf

    EDIT: I was incorrect (see later posts). There is an exception to the normal rules for people on DLA to PIP transfer when having their first PIP assessment. Struck through to avoid misleading anyone reading this post later.
    Last edited by calcotti; 16-01-2020 at 7:23 AM.
    • bigbill
    • By bigbill 15th Jan 20, 8:10 PM
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    bigbill
    All

    As the claimant is 69 now they were clearly below 65 in April 2013 and will therefore be invited to apply for PIP at some stage.

    Once you reach pension age it is not possible to obtain an increase in a mobility award. Therefore as claimant is not getting mobility currently they cannot be considered for a mobility award. see top of page 12 here https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs87_personal_independence_payment_fcs.pdf
    Originally posted by calcotti
    Once again calcotti I must once again disagree with you, the above info on PIP Mobility at bottom of page 11 & top of page 12 clearly applies to people already on PIP and are now over pension age.

    As he is 69 and still on DLA he has yet to be invited to claim PIP so I can assure you they can get the mobility part of PIP awarded once he starts or is invited to claim PIP.

    If I find time I will find the info to confirm this.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 15th Jan 20, 8:18 PM
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    poppy12345
    Once again calcotti I must once again disagree with you, the above info on PIP Mobility at bottom of page 11 & top of page 12 clearly applies to people already on PIP and are now over pension age.

    As he is 69 and still on DLA he has yet to be invited to claim PIP so I can assure you they can get the mobility part of PIP awarded once he starts or is invited to claim PIP.

    If I find time I will find the info to confirm this.
    Originally posted by bigbill
    That's exactly what i thought too. I'll be very interested to read whatever you find. I know of others that weren't claiming mobility DLA and have past state pension age and are now claiming mobility PIP, since transferring across.
    • Robbie64
    • By Robbie64 15th Jan 20, 8:27 PM
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    Robbie64
    It is possible on a DLA to PIP conversion case for a mobility element to be added when the person is aged 65+ even when one isn't in payment under the current DLA claim. Although an old document (it dates back to 2013) the policy is still in place:


    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/180958/pip-briefing-people-over-65.pdf


    see the first paragraph of page 2:



    We have also added an important safeguard which means that anyone being assessed for the first time for PIP who at the time when they are assessed is aged 65 or over will be able to access the daily living and the mobility component of PIP at either the standard or the enhanced rate without the normal age restrictions applying. This means that some people may be able to access the mobility component for the first time, even if they were aged 65 or over at the point they are assessed.
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