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Smart Parking/Gladstone LBC- Wrong VRN entered

Last year I inadvertently used a wrong number/digit when parking my car using smart parking's app. I paid the money and only used the time paid for. I received Smart parking's demands for more money and innocently contacted them explaining my mistake but pointed out that no loss had been incurred by them. Letters followed so I appealed to POPLA and lost. I then became aware of this forum and have since followed most of the advice that I believe pertained to my situation, i.e. wait until LBC arrives.
Gladstones has now sent an LBC (genuine as I have checked as per newbies thread) on behalf of Smart Parking and I have replied using the template on the forum (newbies thread). I have also sent (by email) a SAR to smart parking and Gladstones (using newbies info) but have had no reply. Have just requested the SAR information again from Smart Parking! As I had no reply from Gladstone I sent them the postal return for a paper copy and have now received the paperwork from Gladstones including financial statement. I intend to ignore the financial statement but reply to the rest using the original letter I sent by email but changing the date and posting this time. I have until November 3rd to reply. On principal I will fight this tooth with your assistance! Any advice gratefully received!
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Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 44,322 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Very unusual for Smart to even issue a LBC, and from what we’ve seen, on the handful of cases that have resulted in proceedings progressing, a solid defence has seen Smart rapidly discontinue.

    That’s not to say there should be any complacency (I’m not suggesting that you will be complacent), as these things need every hurdle to be cleared and at the right time, otherwise the defendant loses.

    You need to be aware of what POPLA and the BPA have said about simple keying errors and bear this in mind when it comes to any defence/witness statement you have to write. Please read pages 6 and 7 of the POPLA Annual Report below.

    From you introduction above, I’m not clear whether the VRM input was a digit or two out, or whether the whole VRM of an entirely different vehicle was inputted?

    https://popla.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-document-library/popla-annual-report-2018.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    The PPC has 30 days to respond to a SAR request, and as there’s nothing in it for them, don’t expect their priorities to align with yours. They’re likely to run this down to the wire.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    #Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Davehrm
    Davehrm Posts: 12 Forumite
    10 Posts Second Anniversary
    Thanks for your reply! Im not sure what was entered either and Smart Parking wont assist me on this! if they can tell that a vehicle has entered and not paid then surely they can tell when a spurious number has been entered as well? They know the time bracket, how many cars could there be! I will see where they go with this and post any updates on here.
  • Ralph-y
    Ralph-y Posts: 4,814 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    send not so smart a SAR to the company DPO for all information that they hold on you



    enclose v5 as proof of identity


    Ralph:cool:
  • Davehrm
    Davehrm Posts: 12 Forumite
    10 Posts Second Anniversary
    Hi Ralph

    I have done this twice now with no reply! I have even told Gladstones about it and requested they supply the info requested. I am assuming that this can only help my case
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,296 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Well if Smart won't respond to a Subject Access Request, then you need to let the Information Commissioner's Office know that Smart are not meeting their obligations under the Data Protection Act 2018.
  • Davehrm
    Davehrm Posts: 12 Forumite
    10 Posts Second Anniversary
    Have now received the SAR information. I await the court summons from Gladstones that I assume will automatically follow!
  • Hi all

    I have been awaiting my court date but have instead received the letter below!

    My question is, would you advise me to now ignore this and await my day in court or reply!
    I will not pay and intend fighting this to the end!


    Re: Our Client: Smart Parking LTD
    Amount Due: £185.00

    Thank you for your correspondence, the contents of which have been noted.
    We believe our Letter before Claim is compliant with the most up to date version of the Pre-Action Protocol ('the Protocol') however and without concession, we would be grateful for clarification as to your position with respect to non-compliance with the same.
    It is noted that you have not provided an account of your version of events as is required by the Protocol.

    Despite the above with a view to expediting matters, please find enclosed evidence our Client may later rely on should the need for proceedings arise. We also enclose a copy of the Annex 1 Information Sheet, the Reply Form and the Standard Financial Statement.

    We trust the above and the enclosed clarifies our Client's position with respect to the outstanding debt. In the event you are still unsatisfied with the above, please find below our responses to your numbered questions below;
    1 . The motorist entered into a contract to park on the land pursuant to the signs with our Client. The contract allowed the motorist to park in accordance with the signs or, for a charge of £100, allowed the motorist the privilege to park outside of the conditions as stated on the signs. As the driver on the day for the charge of parking charge 11111111 parked otherwise than in accordance with the signs, they accepted a charge of £100. Payment of the charge has not been forthcoming within the relevant timeframe and as such, the contract has now been breached and further costs incurred as a result of the breach in having to facilitate the recovery of the debt. Our Client's Accredited Trade Association also states that an additional fee may be applied upon the matter being referred for enforcement.
    2. Your details were provided as the registered keeper of vehicle registration 1111111 when a request was made to the DVLA. On the enclosed Notice to Keeper you were provided with the opportunity to nominate a driver. As we are yet to receive any nomination; our Client therefore avers, given your lack of response, that you as the registered keeper of the vehicle were also the driver on the date of the incident.
    3. Our Client has complied with the POFA 2012.
    4. 111111111vehicle number 111111111 registered to you was parked at the DoubleTree by Hilton hotel car park in Bristol City Centre (the site), and received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN).
    Please find enclosed all documents are Client is prepared to disclose at this stage, we believe their content to be self-explanatory.
    5. Yes, this is a claim for contractual breach. We hold that a valid contract was formed between the driver (you in this instance) and our Client and the charge owed is outstanding.
    6. We will not provide a copy of our client's contract with the landowner at this stage. Our Client's position is that the contract entered into is between itself and the motorist to which it acts as the Principal. Any other contract is therefore superfluous when considering liability. In the event that a Court Order specifies that a document to this effect must be provided, our client will comply.
    7. Please refer to the evidence attached.
    8. The information on the signage informs the driver (you) of the parking conditions at the location. Signage is prominent throughout the parking area. Signage location, size, content and font has been audited by the British Parking Association and had this been an issue this would have been addressed and rectified at this stage. It is your responsibility, to check for signage, check the legality and obtain any authorisation for parking before leaving your vehicle. The signage on site is the contractual document.
    9. Prior to our involvement, if the charge had been paid at the time of issuing and/ or within 14 days, the parking charge would have reduced to £60.00. Failing to make the payment within the time frame would make the motorist liable for the full charge of £100, as no payment was forthcoming the case was passed to ourselves and the amount increased to £160.
    The £100.00 is the parking charge and the £85.00 being claimed is a charge owed to our Client for their time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of this, as a direct result of your non-payment.
    No interest and no admin charges have been added until if required, we commence legal proceedings.
    1 0. Please refer to the evidence attached.
    1 1 . Please refer to the evidence.
    12. Please see attached list of redacted vehicles whom paid for their parking. You will note from the list your vehicle registration is not included on this, therefore no payment was made for your vehicle to be parked on site.
    13. All documents our Client is prepared to rely on have been disclosed at this stage.
    We trust the attached explains our Client's position in relation to why the debt is outstanding and in view of the evidence itself, it is our Client's position that the sum of £160 remains outstanding within 30 days from the date of this correspondence. In the event that neither a substantive response nor payment is made within this time-frame our Client may elect to issue legal proceedings without further notice.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Who issued this debt collectors letter ?? Drpl ? Gladstone's ?? Who ?

    More importantly , What is the status of the SAR ??

    You should have received the data by now , if not , complain to the ICO

    You have had 2 months to sort out the SAR

    This seems to be an LoC so you could email a reply denying and alleged debt

    There is zero chance of a summons , because it's not a criminal matter

    There is zero chance of a court date at the moment , because no MCOL claim has been issued

    So deny the alleged debt and ensure that the SAR has had a reply from Smart

    Then come back if a court claim pack arrives from the CCBC in Northampton
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Read what Pete Wishart MP said recently in the House of commons about Smart Parking.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"I am sick and tired of receiving emails from people complaining about the behaviour of parking companies, telling me that they will never again visit Perth city centre because of the negative experience they had when they had the misfortune to end up in a car park operated by one of these companies. I have received more complaints about one car park in the city of Perth than about any other issue. That car park is operated by the lone ranger of the parking cowboys: the hated and appalling Smart Parking—I see that many other Members are unfortunate enough to have Smart Parking operating in their constituencies. It has reached the stage where one member of my staff now spends a good part of each day just helping my constituents and visitors to my constituency to navigate the appeals process.

    The BPA does not have the ability to regulate these companies and has shown no sign whatsoever that it is trying to get on top of some of the sharper practices. The BPA gives a veneer of legitimacy to some of the more outlandish rogue operators by including them in their membership, allowing them to continue to operate. The Bill will oblige operators such as Smart Parking to amend their practices."
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]
    [/FONT]














    [/FONT]

    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 160,732 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    The £100.00 is the parking charge and the £85.00 being claimed is a charge owed to our Client for their time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of this, as a direct result of your non-payment.
    LOL, course it is...read CEC16's thread. The case and statute law says it is not allowed.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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