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massilia13
Posts: 10 Forumite
Hi everyone,
We are in the process of buying a property and we have just found out that the loft conversion (into a bedroom) was done without planning permission nor building regulations. This work was done probably over 25 years ago (windows are dated 1993) well before the current owners moved in.
I asked my solicitors if this bedroom would still be considered fit for purpose and they confirmed, verbally, that it would. I find it difficult to believe. I would not want to pay for the price of a 3 bedrooms bungalow and selling it as 2 beds one in the future. Unsure if an estate agent can market a property as a 3-bedroom bungalow if it turns out that one of the bedroom was a loft conversion without planning permission granted and building regulations approved? Could the use of the room as the bedroom for over 25 years change anything about it? I have read things about the 4 / 10 years rule, but I don’t think this could apply here.
Any thoughts?
We would also have all sort of other issues:
Risk of law enforcement by the Council (even if it is very unlikely)
We can’t guarantee the structure is adequate / the extension meets building regs
Could affect our mortgage
Insurance company could refuse to pay out under building insurance policy
Could impact the selling price as future buyer might not be prepared to take the risk
Our options so farm if we wish to proceed, seem to be taking an indemnity insurance (not too keen on it as it doe not cover much) or to get a certificate of regularisation from the seller (if built after 1985 which is unlikely) which consist in an intrusive very long and complex work which is very likely to be refused.
Can you see any other options?
We are in the process of buying a property and we have just found out that the loft conversion (into a bedroom) was done without planning permission nor building regulations. This work was done probably over 25 years ago (windows are dated 1993) well before the current owners moved in.
I asked my solicitors if this bedroom would still be considered fit for purpose and they confirmed, verbally, that it would. I find it difficult to believe. I would not want to pay for the price of a 3 bedrooms bungalow and selling it as 2 beds one in the future. Unsure if an estate agent can market a property as a 3-bedroom bungalow if it turns out that one of the bedroom was a loft conversion without planning permission granted and building regulations approved? Could the use of the room as the bedroom for over 25 years change anything about it? I have read things about the 4 / 10 years rule, but I don’t think this could apply here.
Any thoughts?
We would also have all sort of other issues:
Risk of law enforcement by the Council (even if it is very unlikely)
We can’t guarantee the structure is adequate / the extension meets building regs
Could affect our mortgage
Insurance company could refuse to pay out under building insurance policy
Could impact the selling price as future buyer might not be prepared to take the risk
Our options so farm if we wish to proceed, seem to be taking an indemnity insurance (not too keen on it as it doe not cover much) or to get a certificate of regularisation from the seller (if built after 1985 which is unlikely) which consist in an intrusive very long and complex work which is very likely to be refused.
Can you see any other options?
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Comments
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After 25+ years the lack of paperwork is irrelevant. It is what it is - satisfy yourself on its structure etc via your survey (in the same way that you are for the remainder of the house - and do you have planning and building regulations for the original construction of the house?).0
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when you come to sell, the buyers will ask the same questions"enough is a feast"...old Buddist proverb0
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Thanks for your replies
The property had other extensions and a conservatory done with all relevant planning permission and building regulation. I also found the original plan of the house with all the relevant paperwork with it.
My main 3 priorities are
To make sure this is 'lawfully' a 3 beds bungalow (unsure how I can do that)
Ensure the loft conversion is safe (structure adequate...) with a thorough building survey
Negotiate the price to avoid losing money when I sale0 -
To make sure this is 'lawfully' a 3 beds bungalow (unsure how I can do that)
Well, ensure there are the correct stairs and alternative exit through the window in case of a fire etc
Ensure the loft conversion is safe (structure adequate...) with a thorough building survey
Just get an independent structural surveyor in and ask him / her to pay particular attention to the loft conversion.
Negotiate the price to avoid losing money when I sale
How do you know how much you are selling it for? If prices rise will you give the seller some money back? It's standard to negotiate when making an offer and receiving any reports from your independent surveyors and your mortgage company's survey.Mortgage started 2020, aiming to clear it in 2026.0 -
What law(s) do you think don't make a 3 bed bungalow? You've had legal advice from your solicitor and I'd be inclined to agree with them. Works only need to be compliant with the building regulations which applied when they were carried out - it's not realistic (or maybe impossible) for something to be retrospectively certified as complying with the version of building regulations from 30ish years ago. And it may well never have needed planning permission - it certainly doesn't now.massilia13 wrote: »To make sure this is 'lawfully' a 3 beds bungalow (unsure how I can do that)0 -
I don't think an estate agent can advertise a 3 bedroom property if one bedroom is missing planning permission and building regulations.
You can get a certificate of regularisation but you are correct building regs 25 years ago and now are not exactly the same standard and it could open a can of worms0 -
I'm not aware of a law which prohibits them from doing so. Can you point us towards one?massilia13 wrote: »I don't think an estate agent can advertise a 3 bedroom property if one bedroom is missing planning permission and building regulations.
Let's bring lofts out of the equation - if it were, say, a single storey 1970s extension containing the kitchen and bathroom, and it didn't have paperwork, do you think everybody would have to pretend the house didn't have a kitchen or bathroom?
You can get them to regularise something done relatively recently, but not sure how building control would regularise something from decades ago (without bringing colleagues out of retirement who might remember what the regulations said!).You can get a certificate of regularisation but you are correct building regs 25 years ago and now are not exactly the same standard and it could open a can of worms0 -
From samconveyancing solicitor website:
"If an additional bedroom has been added but hasn't had building building control sign off, then it cannot be marketed as having the additional room. You can only market a property with having 3 bedrooms if all 3 bedrooms have planning permission and building control sign off.
You should speak to the selling estate agent and inform them if they are incorrectly selling a property with more bedrooms than it legally has."
You can get a letter of regularisation for an unauthorised work that has been carried out on or after 11th Nov 1985. They basically make an intrusive work inspection which should comply with today's building regulations. Not an easy job, certainly not ideal.0 -
None of which tells us the legal basis for that statement, which contradicts both your own solicitor's opinion and my own. And it's obviously nonsense if we're talking about works which never required planning permission in the first place.massilia13 wrote: »From samconveyancing solicitor website:
"If an additional bedroom has been added but hasn't had building building control sign off, then it cannot be marketed as having the additional room. You can only market a property with having 3 bedrooms if all 3 bedrooms have planning permission and building control sign off.
You should speak to the selling estate agent and inform them if they are incorrectly selling a property with more bedrooms than it legally has."
I suggest you discuss with your solicitor if you're unsure about the position.0
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