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  • FIRST POST
    • Kryten_2x4c
    • By Kryten_2x4c 9th May 19, 5:50 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Kryten_2x4c
    Received a PCN from NCP for not paying to park.
    • #1
    • 9th May 19, 5:50 PM
    Received a PCN from NCP for not paying to park. 9th May 19 at 5:50 PM
    Hi guys,


    Just after some advice. I have received an invoice from NCP for failing to pay at Boston Marketplace car park. Apparently the ANPR system "caught" me and flagged my car. This occured on 27th November 2018.



    I used to work for the company at this very car park, so I am well aware of the procedures they must follow. Basically they didn't bother to send ANY form of proof of my "contravention", so the first I knew of it was when I got the standard debt collector letter through the post IN MARCH. Obviously I missed the appeal period because I was unaware there was an issue due to NCP not sending any form of correspondence to me themselves.



    I followed the forum advice, ignored the letters from the DCA, and was then informed it was passed back to NCP, who have enlisted BW Legal and they have sent me a Letter of Claim saying NCP have instructed them to initiate court proceedings against me. At this point I contacted BWL and disputed the invoice, sending them proof that my wife paid for parking that day as she has a 1.50 payment to NCP on her bank statement for that day. BWL then replied and basically ignored the fact that I had sent them photographic proof that I had paid the fee to park that day. I then wrote back re-iterating that I can prove payment was made, proof they had as I had emailed it to them, for them to write back and basically ignore the fact that payment had been made again.


    Any advice as to what to do next would be appreciated.


    Kind regards,
    Niallos
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th May 19, 1:11 AM
    • 71,904 Posts
    • 84,321 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 12th May 19, 1:11 AM
    • #2
    • 12th May 19, 1:11 AM
    LBC stage and sending a SAR to the parking firm to see their entire hand (including any 'ghost' PCN letters) is fully covered in the SECOND POST of the NEWBIES thread and on all the dozens of other current BW Legal LBC threads.

    Get reading & responding!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th May 19, 8:16 AM
    • 12,999 Posts
    • 13,328 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 12th May 19, 8:16 AM
    • #3
    • 12th May 19, 8:16 AM
    If they do take you to court and lose, consider asking the judge for unreasonable behaviour costs under CPR27.14(2)(g).

    Payment was made, proof of payment was provided, yet stiil they took this to court. AFAICS no contract was breached, they lost nothing, Abuse of process/wasting court time imo.

    They are obviously trying to scam you so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

    Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    Last edited by The Deep; 12-05-2019 at 8:18 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Kryten_2x4c
    • By Kryten_2x4c 14th May 19, 8:00 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kryten_2x4c
    • #4
    • 14th May 19, 8:00 AM
    • #4
    • 14th May 19, 8:00 AM
    Hi guys,


    Thats what I thought, I informed them that I would be seeking a SAR from NCP, and was told that someone would be in contact with me about it, yet again (suprise suprise) not correspondance from ANYONE.


    Its just frustrating that they are so bull headed about it, it is there in front of them that NCP were paid that day, but they just will not even acknowledge the fact for some reason.


    Oh well if they want to waste some money going to court, I'll accomodate them, and I will be asking for damages as this totally unnecessary and I don't need the extra stress on top of everthing else at the moment.


    Kind regards,
    Niall
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th May 19, 8:05 AM
    • 12,999 Posts
    • 13,328 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 14th May 19, 8:05 AM
    • #5
    • 14th May 19, 8:05 AM
    Do not ask for damages, ask for costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g) for unreasonable behaviour, and do not forget to complain to your MP.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th May 19, 9:54 AM
    • 11,217 Posts
    • 15,093 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 14th May 19, 9:54 AM
    • #6
    • 14th May 19, 9:54 AM
    At this point I contacted BWL and disputed the invoice, sending them proof that my wife paid for parking that day as she has a 1.50 payment to NCP on her bank statement for that day

    Then it is clear that NCP STOLE YOUR MONEY

    BWLegal won't understand this because they are too entrenched with the scam. It will be up to a judge to ask about this stolen money and as you paid, why is this scam in front of his court.

    When you win for unreasonable action, claim your costs

    BWLegal fail because of rubbish claims

    I said in another thread, this is a Donald Duck / Mickey mouse industry and it's difficult to know between BWLegal and NCP ... who is who ?
    Last edited by beamerguy; 14-05-2019 at 10:07 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Kryten_2x4c
    • By Kryten_2x4c 14th May 19, 12:58 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kryten_2x4c
    • #7
    • 14th May 19, 12:58 PM
    • #7
    • 14th May 19, 12:58 PM
    Okay, I will see what happens then. I will update when I have any information or response from BWL or NCP, seeing as they aren't interested in resolving it I doubt that will happen. I will see if I can find the ticket in the car too, I usually save them for just such an eventuality.


    They all seem to be at it at the moment, my MIL had a ticket from the hospital even though she paid for parking, good job I kept the receipt. Parking Eye couldn't dispute that one and her ticket was overturned.


    Kind regards,
    Niall
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th May 19, 1:03 PM
    • 71,904 Posts
    • 84,321 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 14th May 19, 1:03 PM
    • #8
    • 14th May 19, 1:03 PM
    I informed them that I would be seeking a SAR from NCP, and was told that someone would be in contact with me about it, yet again (surprise surprise) not correspondence from ANYONE.
    Did you actually email a SAR to NCP though? You need to.

    And see the other BW Legal threads from last week. I composed an email template to send to BW Legal and it's on several threads.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Kryten_2x4c
    • By Kryten_2x4c 17th May 19, 3:05 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kryten_2x4c
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 3:05 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 3:05 PM
    Hi guys,


    just wanted your input on this letter that I am planning to send to BW Legal. Any amendments/criticism is appreciated. I have tweaked a letter from someone else on the forum:


    Thank you for your letter of 2nd May 2019.

    When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, it was the first I knew of the charge notice. NCP themselves have failed to supply details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time plus photographs of the signage. No such evidence has been provided.

    You have now sent a Letter of Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence which is required. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.
    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter clearly breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.
    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction.
    Your letter also states that an income/expenditure form requires completing. This is totally misleading, as it only relates to anyone who admits the debt.
    I am fully aware that BW Legal were 'named and shamed' in a Parliamentary debate last year, where MPs unanimously clamoured to expose rogue parking firms and their 'cosy relationship' with firms like BW Legal making a mint from their clients' rogue ticketing and unfair fining. "Poor signage, unreasonable terms, exorbitant fines and aggressive demands for payment have no place in the 21st century and companies like yourself are an absolute disgrace".
    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information in early 2017, yet your client has yet to provide it.

    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    I have enacted a Subject Access Request to NCP, and will proceed on the information that is returned from them.

    Kind regards,
    Last edited by Kryten_2x4c; Yesterday at 12:52 PM. Reason: Private information
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th May 19, 3:59 PM
    • 14,668 Posts
    • 16,856 Thanks
    KeithP
    Is that your real name at the end of that letter?

    If so, best that you remove it from your latest post.

    You also should perhaps consider changing your forum username to something much more anonymous.

    To help with that, you might like to read this short extract from The MSE Forum Guide - Frequently Asked Questions & Rules:
    Q. How can I change my username?

    A.
    In most circumstances, this is not permitted.

    The only reason we will change your username is if it puts your privacy at risk. This usually means you've inadvertently registered using your name, email address or something that gives away your identity within your username.

    If you fall into this category, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com and request that it is changed, giving three alternative usernames in order of preference.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 19, 6:55 PM
    • 71,904 Posts
    • 84,321 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Why have you used that waffly 2017 reply instead of the one I pointed you to?

    And do remove your name from the forum, clearly you are identifying yourself to PPCs!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Kryten_2x4c
    • By Kryten_2x4c 18th May 19, 12:51 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kryten_2x4c
    Hi,


    I couldn't find the one you were referring to, the only posts that came up using the search didn't have any letter templates on them, so I resorted to using that one.



    I will contact them and ask them to change my name, didn't realise that it would be an issue.


    Kind regards.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 18th May 19, 1:30 PM
    • 4,785 Posts
    • 4,257 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    I couldn't find the one you were referring to, the only posts that came up using the search didn't have any letter templates on them, so I resorted to using that one.
    Originally posted by Niallos
    They/it isn't a template, rather advice on the way to deal with a LNC/LBA/LBCCC/LoC.
    • Kryten_2x4c
    • By Kryten_2x4c 18th May 19, 2:43 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kryten_2x4c
    Did you actually email a SAR to NCP though? You need to.

    And see the other BW Legal threads from last week. I composed an email template to send to BW Legal and it's on several threads.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Sorry, was looking for the template mentioned here. I will have a read and try and come up with something better.


    Kind regards
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th May 19, 1:04 AM
    • 71,904 Posts
    • 84,321 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No, find the one I wrote on 6th May. It's on several BW Legal threads and simply needed you to read the ones from that week.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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