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    • swaggerjagger
    • By swaggerjagger 12th Jan 19, 7:14 PM
    • 5Posts
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    swaggerjagger
    Unfair redundancy
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 19, 7:14 PM
    Unfair redundancy 12th Jan 19 at 7:14 PM
    Hi all,

    Yesterday, after 2.5 years service with the company, I was made redundant.

    After being in work for about 30 mins, the MD's PA came in and said my position had been made redundant and that I was free to leave immediately.

    I'm a little unsure to my rights as I was at the over 2 years. Should I have had consultation beforehand and a chance to discuss alternatives? I was fairly high level within the company, reporting directly to the MD, so I knew about overheads which are way to high.

    There wouldn't have been over 20 people made redundant as the company doesn't employ a huge amount of people and couldn't operate if the redundancy number was over 20.

    Should I negotiate terms based on being dismissed unfairly? I have a 3 month notice period and would be eligible to 2 weeks statutory pay on top of that.

    I'm more than happy to answer any questions regarding my situation if you have any.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • happyc84
    • By happyc84 13th Jan 19, 11:27 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    happyc84
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 19, 11:27 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 19, 11:27 PM
    sorry to hear that you have been selected for redundancy.


    sounds like they have rushed the decision; I'd ask what the terms are both statutory and the company terms.



    You do have some protection as you have been there greater than 2 years.
    • swaggerjagger
    • By swaggerjagger 14th Jan 19, 5:02 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    swaggerjagger
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 19, 5:02 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 19, 5:02 PM
    sorry to hear that you have been selected for redundancy.


    sounds like they have rushed the decision; I'd ask what the terms are both statutory and the company terms.



    You do have some protection as you have been there greater than 2 years.
    Originally posted by happyc84
    Thanks for messaging back.

    It was a rushed decision, basically decided the afternoon before from what I can gather. Although I haven't received the letter still confirming, the terms will be statutory redundancy and then my notice period of 12 weeks plus then what I had worked this month.

    I'm trying to find out what the protection is exactly. If it's catergorised as unfair dismissal, I don't actually know what could be claimed. That's why I'm looking into it because I'd rather not go to tribuanl, but may be able to negotiate an additional payment based on their failure to follow a proper procedure.

    Off to CAB tomorrow to get their opinion, so hopefully they can help with the info.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Jan 19, 5:51 PM
    • 35,052 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 19, 5:51 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 19, 5:51 PM
    .....my position had been made redundant and that I was free to leave immediately.
    .....
    I was fairly high level within the company, reporting directly to the MD, so I knew about overheads which are way to high...
    Anybody they could have pooled you with to have a selection process?

    Who will be taking over your duties?
    • swaggerjagger
    • By swaggerjagger 15th Jan 19, 3:34 PM
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    swaggerjagger
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 19, 3:34 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 19, 3:34 PM
    Anybody they could have pooled you with to have a selection process?

    Who will be taking over your duties?
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    As far as I'm aware there was no pooling, however, there was at least one other that could have been pooled with me. Although not identical roles, they were a position below me, and I could have taken on their duties without training, but they couldn't have done so with mine.

    Also didn't help when it's a good friend of the MD and that he owes the MD quite a bit of money.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 16th Jan 19, 5:32 AM
    • 35,052 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 19, 5:32 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 19, 5:32 AM
    They don't need to pool that job if it is your work that is going.

    You could consult on a "bumping" where you take on the lower role and they get rid of the other person, but they can give you new T&C like lower pay.

    so I knew about overheads which are way to high.
    IT should be fairly clear where the cuts needed to happen to streamline the business and if they have decided that is you there will be little you can do about it, ET can deals with failures in the process but that does not change the outcome if you are a pool of one and they have decided you are going, ET don't tell people how to run their business and who to employ.

    Best to negotiate the exit,

    PILON will allow you to move on, or you may prefer garden leave so you can look for a new job and still say you are employed.
    • swaggerjagger
    • By swaggerjagger 16th Jan 19, 9:45 AM
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    swaggerjagger
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 19, 9:45 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 19, 9:45 AM
    Thanks for your response.

    What about not being consulted prior to being told that I'd be made redundant? Even for a smaller company I thought that this still had to happen, even if it's just reasonable time?
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 16th Jan 19, 12:23 PM
    • 1,640 Posts
    • 3,053 Thanks
    nicechap
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 19, 12:23 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 19, 12:23 PM
    What's the difference between statutory redundancy for 2 1/2 years and what you're getting?
    Originally Posted by shortcrust
    "Contact the Ministry of Fairness....If sufficient evidence of unfairness is discovered you’ll get an apology, a permanent contract with backdated benefits, a ‘Let’s Make it Fair!’ tshirt and mug, and those guilty of unfairness will be sent on a Fairness Awareness course."
    • swaggerjagger
    • By swaggerjagger 21st Jan 19, 3:55 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    swaggerjagger
    • #9
    • 21st Jan 19, 3:55 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Jan 19, 3:55 PM
    Nothing. I'm getting the statutory amount for 2 weeks plus my notice period.

    I'm looking into whether I should negotiate a settlement agreement of some kind based on being unfairly dismissed, if that's the case.

    I will be paid PILON for the time I worked in Jan, my notice period and the 2 weeks statutory.
    • pelirocco
    • By pelirocco 21st Jan 19, 4:07 PM
    • 7,705 Posts
    • 8,629 Thanks
    pelirocco
    You have the right to consultation , last year we had to make 3 people redundant . We had to consult with everyone involved in that part of the business ( we had to drop one arm of our business ) they had to be told their jobs were at risk , informed of any possible vancancies we had elsewhere and they were invited to offer a solution as to where they thought they could move to in the business. This consultation took 3 weeks with 1 meeting a week ( obviously the meetigs moved from at risk , to your role has been made redundant , and they finally what the terms and payment would be ) at the last meeting they were also informed that they had the right of appeal with in so many days . There was then notice days to be worked ( pilon) pay and holidays due , plus redundancy pay

    I would say your company hasnt followed proceedures , check your employees handbook if you have one
    We employ a company to advise us on HR issues , and I know they will err on the side of caution , but I feel you have a case to bring
    Vuja De - the feeling you'll be here later
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 21st Jan 19, 4:16 PM
    • 16,627 Posts
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    antrobus
    You have the right to consultation , last year we had to make 3 people redundant .
    Originally posted by pelirocco
    You’re entitled to a consultation with your employer if you’re being made redundant.....If your employer is making up to 19 redundancies, there are no rules about how they should carry out the consultation. If they’re making 20 or more redundancies at the same time, the collective redundancy rules apply.

    https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/consultation

    OP states "There wouldn't have been over 20 people made redundant" thus there are no rules and no procedures to follow as regards the consultation.
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 21st Jan 19, 4:27 PM
    • 16,627 Posts
    • 23,553 Thanks
    antrobus
    Nothing. I'm getting the statutory amount for 2 weeks plus my notice period.

    I'm looking into whether I should negotiate a settlement agreement of some kind based on being unfairly dismissed, if that's the case.

    I will be paid PILON for the time I worked in Jan, my notice period and the 2 weeks statutory.
    Originally posted by swaggerjagger
    The basic award for unfair dismissal is the same as statutory redundancy. The compensatory reward covers actual losses if there are any.

    This source here says you might get around £450 to £900 for loss of employment rights.

    https://www.ellisjones.co.uk/blog/article/how-much-compensation-could-i-get-for-unfair-dismissal

    You would need grounds for claiming unfair dismissal.

    Employment tribunals - legal tests for unfair dismissal claims - redundancy
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/employment-tribunals-from-29-july-2013/making-an-employment-tribunal-claim-is-it-worth-it/employment-tribunals-unfair-dismissal-claims/legal-tests/employment-tribunals-legal-tests-for-unfair-dismissal-claims-redundancy/
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