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  • FIRST POST
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 12th Oct 18, 7:16 PM
    • 8Posts
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    tomblam1
    UKCPM / Gladstones Court Claim
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:16 PM
    UKCPM / Gladstones Court Claim 12th Oct 18 at 7:16 PM
    Hello,

    I have had through a claim from Gladstones solicitors / UK Car Park Management Ltd.

    Unfortunately I took the (wrong) advice beforehand of not responding at all up until this point.

    I also don't have any of the documentation apart from the LBC and the claims stuff.

    The Particulars of Claim are the following -
    The driver of the vehicle registration XXXXXXX (the 'vehicle') incurred the parking charge(s) on 12/09/2017 for breaching the terms of parking on the land at Nightingale Road - Nightingale Road Horsham West Sussex RH12 2NW
    The defendant was driving the Vehicle and/or is the Keeper of the Vehicle
    AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
    160 for Parking Charges / Damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with interest of 12.50 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% oa. continuing to Judgement at 0.04 per day
    If the driver remembers correctly, there is one sign on the other side of the road to where the driver was parked, slightly further down. Many cars are parked down this road during the day and get no ticket, and there is further confusing regarding the fact that from where the car was parked, there is a sign displaying free parking for one of the business on this road, and a sign showing pay and display (the area where the driver was parked was not the pay and display car park).
    Furthermore, the particulars state that I was the driver of the vehicle, yet this has not been admitted.

    In terms of the LBC, would this still be applicable to the defence?
    If so, the potential points I could see are:
    - My full name is not used (no middle name used)
    - The only potential basis for the reason of the claim is that the debt is not settled and the PCN number, other than that no mention of parking etc.
    - details of any funding arrangement (within the meaning of rule 43.2(1)(k) of the CPR) that has been entered into by the claimant (unsure what this means but may not be on there)
    - there is no list of the documents that will be relied upon in court, unless this is just the PCN number?
    - there is nothing about 'identify and ask for copies of any relevant documents not in the claimant's possession and which the claimant wishes to see.'
    - it does state that a reply outside 30 days may not be considered as legal proceedings are likely to have been issued, however does not state that the costs may not rise (the claim amount in the LBC is 160)

    Any advice would be appreciated,

    Thanks.
    Last edited by tomblam1; 12-10-2018 at 7:45 PM.
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Oct 18, 7:20 PM
    • 11,255 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:20 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:20 PM
    It looks like you have a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre.

    What is the Date of Issue on that Claim Form?
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 18, 7:20 PM
    • 20,378 Posts
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    Redx
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:20 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:20 PM
    edit your post and remove any hint of who was driving on the day

    state the DRIVER, no "MY , ME , MYSELF & I"

    all the paperwork has gone to the KEEPER


    what is the DATE OF ISSUE ?

    a good idea to send an SAR so you get all the evidence within a month too
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 12th Oct 18, 7:49 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    tomblam1
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:49 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:49 PM
    Thanks for the replies,
    The issue date was the 02 October.
    I have submitted the Acknowledgment of Service today.
    The only other correspondence I have record of other than mentioned is a text received from Gladstones a few months ago, however I am unsure how they got my number.

    Thanks for the help.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 18, 7:55 PM
    • 20,378 Posts
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    Redx
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:55 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:55 PM
    send an SAR for all the docs and pics etc

    then read a few recent defences , including ones written OR HONED by member BARGEPOLE

    post the proposed draft below for critique
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Oct 18, 8:00 PM
    • 11,255 Posts
    • 11,823 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:00 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:00 PM
    The issue date was the 02 October.
    I have submitted the Acknowledgment of Service today.
    Originally posted by tomblam1
    With a Claim Issue Date of 2nd October, and having done the AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 5th November 2018 to file your Defence.

    Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 21st Oct 18, 10:29 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    tomblam1
    • #7
    • 21st Oct 18, 10:29 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Oct 18, 10:29 PM
    Here is my draft defence, based on others found on this forum and elsewhere:

    1) It is admitted that the defendant, XXXXXXXXXXX, is the registered keeper of the vehicle.
    2) It is denied that any indemnity costs are owed, and any debt is denied in its entirety.
    3) The particulars of claim state that the defendant was driving the Vehicle and/or is the Keeper of the Vehicle. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a selection of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Furthermore, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.
    4) The identity of the driver of the vehicle on the date in question has not been ascertained, and no evidence has been supplied by the claimant as to who parked the vehicle. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 there is no presumption in law as to who parked a vehicle on private land nor does there exist any obligation for the keeper to name a driver. It is reiterated that:
    a. The Claimant did not identify the driver
    b. The Claimant must rely upon the strict provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold the defendant responsible for the driver’s alleged breach.
    5) 4. Due to the lack of information in the particulars, the legal basis for the claim is unclear, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.
    6) The Claimant is to provide proof that they have sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.
    7) The Particulars are not clear, and the claimant has not provided enough information to file a full defence. In particular, the full details of the contract, which it is alleged was broken, have not been provided.
    1. The Claimant has disclosed no cause of action to give rise to any debt.
    2. The Claimant has stated that a parking charge was incurred.
    3. The Claimant has given no indication of the nature of the alleged charge in the Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has therefore disclosed no cause of action.
    8) On the 20th September 2016 a private parking charge claim by Gladstone’s was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court without a hearing due to their ‘roboclaim’ particulars being incoherent, failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and ‘providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law.’ On the 27th July 2016 DJ Anson sitting at Preston County Court ruled that the very similar parking charge particulars of claim were efficient and failing to meet CPR 16.4 and PD 16 paragraphs 7.3 – 7.6. He ordered the Claimant in that case to file new particulars which they failed to do and so the court confirmed that the claim be struck out.
    9) The Claimant has not complied with the pre-court protocol:
    a. No information has been provided regarding the list of the documents that will be relied upon in court
    b. It has not been stated that the claim amount may rise
    c. The defendants full name was not used
    d. No information has been provided regarding any funding arrangement (within the meaning of rule 43.2(1)(k) of the CPR) that has been entered into by the claimant.
    e. No clear basis for the reason for the claim was provided
    10) It is suggested by the defendant that parking companies using the small claims process as a form of aggressive debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to sustenance.
    11) It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The appropriate Claimant (if any debt exists, which is denied) would be the landowner.
    12) It is submitted that (apart from properly incurred court fees) any added legal fees/costs are simply numbers fabricated out of nothing and are an attempt at double recovery by the Claimant, which would not be recoverable in the small claims court.
    13) It is requested by the defendant that the court strike out this claim for the reasons stated above, and for similar reasons cited by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court on 20/09/16 where a similar claim was struck out without a hearing, due to Gladstone’s' template particulars for a private parking firm being 'incoherent', failing to comply with CPR16.4, and ''providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law''.
    14) Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.
    Name
    Signature
    Date


    As my address has changed during this period, how would you suggest that I go about notifying those relevant about this change of adresss?

    Thanks for all your help.
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 22nd Oct 18, 11:08 PM
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    tomblam1
    • #8
    • 22nd Oct 18, 11:08 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Oct 18, 11:08 PM
    There is another potential point that I was unsure about.

    The car was parked on the side of the road. This section of the road is unadopted by the council but falls within their road network. There are no signs (other than the parking ones) that would suggest that this is a private road, as it flows seamlessly between the adopted part and the unadopted park.
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 24th Oct 18, 1:10 PM
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    tomblam1
    • #9
    • 24th Oct 18, 1:10 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Oct 18, 1:10 PM
    Anyone able to help?
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 28th Oct 18, 1:27 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    tomblam1
    Anyone able to give critique?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Oct 18, 1:38 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    #8 and #13 are repetition, so remove one (or both, as they do not assist your case).

    The draft defence so far, has no facts telling the Judge about the location, what happened, whether it was dark, whether the driver saw no signs, etc. (if the Defendant was driving, I would defend as driver v UKCPM, not hide behind the POFA/keeper liability at all).

    There is another potential point that I was unsure about.

    The car was parked on the side of the road. This section of the road is unadopted by the council but falls within their road network. There are no signs (other than the parking ones) that would suggest that this is a private road, as it flows seamlessly between the adopted part and the unadopted park.
    Originally posted by tomblam1
    So tell that story, like I did here (different facts but show you should state that the roadway appeared to be public highway, and that there were no visible signs & lines...or whatever):

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74972111#post74972111
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 31st Oct 18, 4:30 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    tomblam1
    #8 and #13 are repetition, so remove one (or both, as they do not assist your case).

    The draft defence so far, has no facts telling the Judge about the location, what happened, whether it was dark, whether the driver saw no signs, etc. (if the Defendant was driving, I would defend as driver v UKCPM, not hide behind the POFA/keeper liability at all).



    So tell that story, like I did here (different facts but show you should state that the roadway appeared to be public highway, and that there were no visible signs & lines...or whatever):
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thanks for your help.

    The additional points I've added are the following :
    3) 3) The defendant confirms the vehicle was parked on Nightingale Road on the 12/09/2017. There are a number of areas of Nightingale Road starting where it North Street, Gladstone Road and the council adopted highway section of Nightingale road that have no marking indicating the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. There is also no clear distinction between the council adopted and the privately owned section of Nightingale Road, nor is there any indication of a private road when joining from North Street or Gladstone Road.
    4) The terms on the Claimant's signage are illegible from a passing vehicle and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage can create a legally binding contract.
    Would anyone be able to give their advice on these?
    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Nov 18, 12:18 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes that looks fine.
    • tomblam1
    • By tomblam1 1st Nov 18, 12:21 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    tomblam1
    Yes that looks fine.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thanks.

    Would anyone be able to help regarding my address changing? How should those relevant be notified?

    I notified both UKCPM and Gladstones when I did the SAR.
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