Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 9th Oct 18, 8:42 AM
    • 416Posts
    • 148Thanks
    MSE Callum
    Let companies make water meters compulsory, MPs say - MSE News
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:42 AM
    Let companies make water meters compulsory, MPs say - MSE News 9th Oct 18 at 8:42 AM
    Water companies should be allowed to make households get water meters, an influential group of MPs has said...
    Read the full story:
    'Let companies make water meters compulsory, MPs say'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply.
    Read the latest MSE News
    Flag up a news story: news@moneysavingexpert.com
    Get the Free MoneySavingExpert Money Tips E-mail
Page 1
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 9th Oct 18, 9:39 AM
    • 3,984 Posts
    • 2,520 Thanks
    matelodave
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:39 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:39 AM
    Yep, agree with that. Those who use most would then pay most.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • D_M_E
    • By D_M_E 9th Oct 18, 10:44 AM
    • 2,076 Posts
    • 69,607 Thanks
    D_M_E
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 18, 10:44 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 18, 10:44 AM
    Agree that every property should have a water meter but will the mass implementation of smart water meters result in a similar fiasco as seen with smat gas and electricity meters?

    Possibly not, since you cannot yet switch water suppliers so the meter would be tied to one particular supplier in a set area, but what about meters on the fringes of supply areas?
    If the intention is to set up a centralised receiving station which gets information from meters then there could be problems, but if the water company has to do driveby visits and pick up readings that way, then there could also be problems if the driveby detectors recieve a strong signal from the meters - remember the M&S problem where card readers were charging cards nowhere near the terminals?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Oct 18, 11:33 AM
    • 27,585 Posts
    • 13,542 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 18, 11:33 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 18, 11:33 AM
    It was always the intent of the 1989 Water Act that all domestic properties would eventually be metered. It decreed that all properties built after April 1990 must have a meter*. Existing properties could apply for a meter; and incidentally pay for it to be fitted! Free meter fitting came later.


    However an important provision of the Act was that on change of occupant(or account holder) the water company could compulsorily fit a meter. Had that provision been enforced the only properties still on Rateable Value(RV) charges would be those that still had the same April 1990 occupant.


    The problem with that provision was that it wasn't mandatory and some companies enforced the provision, but most didn't bother. The reason for this indifference was that there is no financial incentive for the companies to fit meters. In simplistic terms Ofwat allows the companies to raise £Xbillion revenue as long as they meet targets. It is doesn't matter if £Ybillion comes from metered properties and £Zbillion comes from unmetered properties as long as they get their authorised £Xbillion.


    *with a few exceptions.
    • Ezorqs
    • By Ezorqs 9th Oct 18, 1:27 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Ezorqs
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:27 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:27 PM
    I can understand if I were living in Kent, but Manchester? We get the most rainfall in the country. What's the point in forcing us to have water meters?
    • Marvel1
    • By Marvel1 9th Oct 18, 1:32 PM
    • 3,694 Posts
    • 4,088 Thanks
    Marvel1
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:32 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:32 PM
    I would love one, but cannot due to shared access with neighbour
    • rmg1
    • By rmg1 9th Oct 18, 1:37 PM
    • 2,950 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    rmg1
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:37 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:37 PM
    This article also mentions leaks.
    If I have a water leak and Yorkshire water take forever (like they normally do with anything) to fix it, will I have to pay for that as well?

    I've just calculated I can save about 50% of my normal bill by using a meter. That's good for me.

    What about those families on low incomes that will see a bill increase because of 2 adults, 2 children (i.e. the "nuclear" family). Will they get any help due to increased bills?
    Probably not in my mind.
    Flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality - Am I flogging a dead horse?

    Any posts are my opinion and only that. Please read at your own risk.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Oct 18, 1:52 PM
    • 27,585 Posts
    • 13,542 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:52 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:52 PM
    In the MSE article by Callum Mason there is a point that needs correcting.


    Without a water meter, your bill is based on your home's 'rateable value' – a figure based on the size of your property.
    Rateable Value(RV) is not based on the size of your property; or indeed its value or Council Tax band.



    The last general revaluation for England and Wales was in 1973 and the RV was assessed on the notional rent a property could command. This assessment included the condition of the house - e.g Central Heating, a garage, garden, as well as the area and access to facilities - bus route etc.


    I know of huge mansions out in the country, that were in a very poor state of repair, that have a lower RV than a small estate semi. Who would want to rent the run down remote mansion? One is modernised and Band H but retains its low RV.





    I also know of a small derelict cottage that was demolished and a 7 bed detached built, with full planning permission, that has kept its 'peppercorn' RV.



    Whilst the owners should have got a meter fitted, they obviously didn't bother and neither did the water company. Indeed the water company probably are not aware of the alterations; they just send out the RV based bills each year.



    We have had many posts on MSE of people complaining that a nearby house is bigger, with a higher Council Tax banding; yet has a lower RV than their house. The reason will be that at the time of the RV assessement(1973?) the bigger house was a less attractive rental proposition.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Oct 18, 1:56 PM
    • 27,585 Posts
    • 13,542 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:56 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 18, 1:56 PM
    I would love one, but cannot due to shared access with neighbour
    Originally posted by cjdavies

    Then you should apply for a meter and wou will be offered an assessed charge. You must apply first.
    • kerri gt
    • By kerri gt 9th Oct 18, 2:55 PM
    • 7,613 Posts
    • 52,237 Thanks
    kerri gt
    I would love one, but cannot due to shared access with neighbour
    Originally posted by cjdavies
    We have a shared drive and it's made no difference to the water company who are due to fit ours. They were round checking if it was a shared external stop !!!! (it wasn't) but even if that was the case it didn't seem to be an issue.
    Feb 2015 NSD Challenge 8/12
    JAN NSD 11/16


    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Oct 18, 3:26 PM
    • 27,585 Posts
    • 13,542 Thanks
    Cardew
    We have a shared drive and it's made no difference to the water company who are due to fit ours. They were round checking if it was a shared external stop !!!! (it wasn't) but even if that was the case it didn't seem to be an issue.
    Originally posted by kerri gt

    Whilst you may be correct, I took cjdavies' post to mean a shared water main. e.g it is often impossible to fit meters in older blocks of flats.
    • YorksLass
    • By YorksLass 9th Oct 18, 3:45 PM
    • 459 Posts
    • 7,590 Thanks
    YorksLass
    I would love one, but cannot due to shared access with neighbour
    Originally posted by cjdavies
    Then you should apply for a meter and wou will be offered an assessed charge. You must apply first.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    We live in a block of maisonettes and in 2016 applied for a water meter to be installed. We were told it wasn't possible due to a shared water main but (as Cardew advises) were offered an assessed charge instead. We received a small rebate on what we had already paid and the bill was adjusted for the remainder of the year, resulting in a saving of over £25 per month.

    Whilst I agree (in part) with the sentiment expressed by the "influential group of MPs", it doesn't sound as if they are aware that some householders cannot have a meter fitted, even if they want one.
    Be kind to others and to yourself too. Life has its ups and downs, use the ups to overcome the downs!
    Dec £26.32/110 and 5/28 NSDs (Jan-Nov £170.14 under budget)

    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 9th Oct 18, 9:17 PM
    • 3,375 Posts
    • 2,163 Thanks
    Ectophile
    This article also mentions leaks.
    If I have a water leak and Yorkshire water take forever (like they normally do with anything) to fix it, will I have to pay for that as well?
    Originally posted by rmg1

    If it's on your side of the meter, it's your problem and you have to pay for the water.


    The only exception might be if there's a few feet of pavement between the meter and your property.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • Sachakins
    • By Sachakins 10th Oct 18, 12:18 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Sachakins
    No compulsory meters without accountability
    FIRST: Lets make it law that water companies stop all leaks and until they do,
    no more price increases,
    no fat cat bonuses,
    no shareholderd bonuses and
    no pay for the board members
    Untill they hava a 100% sealed and leak free system in place for a minimum of 2 years before any action against consumer of any kind.
    • redux
    • By redux 10th Oct 18, 1:46 AM
    • 18,702 Posts
    • 25,016 Thanks
    redux
    ... a minimum of 2 years before any action against consumer of any kind.
    Originally posted by Sachakins
    This house voluntarily applied for a water meter.

    The bill dropped from nearly £700 to £230 a year. Should have done it earlier.

    At almost the same time I bought dual flush valves for the toilets, and a new shower head which claimed to use less water.
    Last edited by redux; 10-10-2018 at 1:51 AM.
    • rmg1
    • By rmg1 10th Oct 18, 9:58 AM
    • 2,950 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    rmg1
    If it's on your side of the meter, it's your problem and you have to pay for the water.


    The only exception might be if there's a few feet of pavement between the meter and your property.
    Originally posted by Ectophile

    Ok, that's fine.
    what about a leaking stop-tap? It's their property (as far as I know) but it's in my house.
    Where does that fit in?

    And I see no-one has said anything about bill increases for low-income families.
    Flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality - Am I flogging a dead horse?

    Any posts are my opinion and only that. Please read at your own risk.
    • Marvel1
    • By Marvel1 10th Oct 18, 1:50 PM
    • 3,694 Posts
    • 4,088 Thanks
    Marvel1
    Then you should apply for a meter and wou will be offered an assessed charge. You must apply first.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    I have an assessed charge but still overpaying
    • Marvel1
    • By Marvel1 10th Oct 18, 1:51 PM
    • 3,694 Posts
    • 4,088 Thanks
    Marvel1
    We have a shared drive and it's made no difference to the water company who are due to fit ours. They were round checking if it was a shared external stop !!!! (it wasn't) but even if that was the case it didn't seem to be an issue.
    Originally posted by kerri gt
    Sorry not shared drive, a shared external stop.
    • riaclark
    • By riaclark 10th Oct 18, 3:33 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    riaclark
    Thousands of terraced house and flats have shared supply pipes
    I have written to Neil Parish MP Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee as follows:
    I live in a Victorian terrace house, and the whole street has a system whereby each pair of adjacent houses is served by a SINGLE lead pipe with the pipe going to one house, through to the back, and then branches through the party wall to serve the adjacent house.

    This scheme makes it impossible to individually meter each house without extensive replacement pipework to establish independent supplies, and this is the responsibility of the householder. In my case the house next door became a deceased estate and was bought by a developer, who got a quote from Thames Water for an independent supply, which was estimated at £4000 plus Vat because the water main is on the other side of the road. The developer declined to make this alteration. Subsequently and coincidently Thames Water detected a water leak under the pavement on the pipe serving both houses and this was repaired by their sub-contractors Essential Water Supplies. When this work was done I was surprised to find that the pipe going under the road was lead, and has an internal bore of 10 to 12 mm, which is really insufficient for two houses.

    An elderly widow living alone further down the road suffered considerable distress when Thames Water put a meter in her home and her water bill doubled. She asked me for advice, and within 30 minutes after liaison with her neighbour I was able to demonstrate that the meter was also recording her "unmetered" neighbour's consumption. Thames Water then disconnected the meter rather than establish independent supplies at their expense.

    My elderly mother living in Sherborne Dorset was unable to have a meter, because of a shared pipe with the neighbour. One of my daughters, living in a terrace house in Oxford, is in the same situation. My other daughter bought a flat in Twickenham, and had 4 cold water tanks in her attic serving 3 other flats, but all supplied by the same water main.

    Did you Committee take evidence from householders and consider the practical and financial implications of this key recommendation? Do you have any data from the water companies as to how pervasive this situation is?

    By way of contrast I draw your attention to a parallel issue with the Gas supply. In recent months a firm called KLT has been operating in our area to replace the gas main, and at the expense of SGN has and is replacing every single supply pipe to every single house and flat. In case of flats this has involved considerable pipework within individual properties. This illustrates that privatised utilities can operate in the interest of the domestic consumer.

    I do hope you will draw this to the attention of your committee.
    2.6.0.02.6.0.0
    • Gazzman140
    • By Gazzman140 13th Oct 18, 1:57 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Gazzman140
    Water meters
    I've use water meters in my last few properties and they relly me save money - however my current property has been told that we can't have a meter due to being on a joint line with our neighbours. They put me on an average per area bill, which seems to working okay, so far...
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,512Posts Today

8,813Users online

Martin's Twitter